January 22, 1996, interview with Helena Tichauer, T-I-C-H-A-U-E-R. My name is Ben Nachman. I'm the interviewer. Omaha, Nebraska. Language English. Can you give me your name, please?

My name is Helena Tichauer.

And how do you spell that?

H-E-L-E-N-A T-I-C-H-A-U-E-R.

And can you tell me what your maiden name was?

It's Schulkind. S-C-H-U-L-K-I-N-D.

And when were you born?

I am born 1922 in December in Krakow.

Krakow, Poland?

Poland.

Can you describe your life in Poland growing up before the war?

My life was very good. I have a wonderful childhood. My father was good provider. He was electronic electric engineer. And I am the oldest one from my two other siblings. And this what I can recall.

Were your siblings older or younger than you?

I am the oldest one and the wisest one.

Of the three?

Of the three. My youngest brother perished in the last war in the Holocaust.

And your sister?

My sister is surviving and she lives here in Omaha. And she is two and a half years younger than me.

Did you grow up in a house or were you living in an apartment?

We live in apartment.

Was it a large apartment?

Pretty large apartment, yes.

A lot of other people living there?

It was big house. It was big house, has I don't know, four four floors.

Were there mostly Jewish people living in this apartment?

No, no, just most been mix.

And did you get along well with your neighbors?

We get very good, very good. That was not like like here. You know, we didn't sit too much by our neighbors. We didn't look what the cooking and whatever. We didn't gossip so much.

And were you, did you grow up in a religious home?

My father came from a religious home, but he was very liberal. We observed our holidays, but home wasn't very religious.

And how about your mother? What was her upbringing?

My mother came from less religious, pretty much religious, but not like father's side. And again, mother was very liberal. We didn't kept kosher. We observed the holidays, but we were not big fanatics.

Did you grow up in an area where you attended a religious school, Hebrew school?

No, we have a private tutor at home that taught us Hebrew, Sephardic Hebrew, not Ashkenaz.

And what kind of educational background do you have?

I have a grade school, and I have gymnasium that is equal to the high school here.

Did you attend school beyond gymnasium?

I couldn't because I was just sixteen and a half years old when the war started in 1939, 1st of September. And I didn't have the opportunities. But during the war, during, after the war, I have some training in nursing. And whatever I know, I taught myself.

Did you finish gymnasium?

No, no, I didn't have the opportune, no.

Can you describe your daily life in growing up prior to the war?

My life was wonderful. We took time every year for vacation, for three months vacation, when we have school vacation. We went different places. We used to ski with our father. I used to skate with my mother. And the life was wonderful.

During this vacation time, would you go away?

We used to go away, yes.

With your entire family?

Yes. My dad couldn't go, you know, for a long time, like three months. But every weekend, he always used to come to visit.

What were some of the places you would go on vacation?

We go, we went to the Carpaths, like Zakopane. We went to Czarna. We went to Zawoja, you know, many, many different places.

Were these resort areas in Poland?

They've been resort area, yes.

In the Carpathian Mountains?

Mm-hmm.

Was the Jewish community active that you lived in?

I didn't live in really Jewish community. Most of my young life was spent in neighborhoods where not too many Jews were living.

And your treatment was good?

Yes.

You got along well with your Polish neighbors?

Oh, definitely. We did.

What kind of work did your father do?

My father was engineer, electric engineer.

Was he working for himself?

Oh, sure. We have we have employees, sure.

And specifically, what did he do?

He used to work with architects and new buildings. He used to install escalators, electrical – how do you call it? – escalators. And he installed, like, OPPD on small, smaller scale in small town in Poland that was working on the water turbines. And even so, here in Omaha, you have people that know my father, the Richmonds, you know Richmonds. What he used to leave for my father did the electric — how you call — company.

Where did he receive his education?

My father received education in Vienna after World War I. He went to the Polytechnical in Vienna.

Had your family lived in Poland for quite a number of years?

Yes, my forefathers even are born in Krakow. And my parents been born under the Austrian occupation.

Krakow was then part of the Austro-Hungarian —

Was Galicia, yes, it was occupied by the Austrian.

During your growing up years, did you have any anti-Semitism that you knew of?

Probably we did, but I didn't feel the anti-Semitism. And I assumed that in Poland, you know, the Polish people are anti-Semitic.

Did you attend a synagogue on holidays?

Yes.

Did you attend a synagogue on Sabbath?

No.

Just on holidays?

Just on high holidays and some major holidays.

Did you have a lot of family living in Krakow?

Yes.

Can you tell me who you had in family?

I have uncles and I have cousins and I have aunts. And the father's family was very big because he comes from 11 siblings. And each one was married and each one has own family.

And how about on your mother's side, was it a large family?

On mother's side, my mother's side has three brothers. My mother was just only girl. And again, we came together once in awhile, but the family wasn't so big.

Did the family get together for holidays?

Yes, definitely. We usually used to go to our grandparents because they kept kosher and we were not kosher. I have grandmother that wouldn't drink even glass of water in our house

Did they also live in Krakow?

Yes. Yeah.

Did you grow up then with two sets of grandparents?

Yes, no. On mother's side, I have both grandparents. On father's side, I just have grandmother. My grandfather passed away when he was 42 years old and I didn't know him.

And you were close to the family, the relatives?

Very, very close.

How old were you when the war began?

I was 16 and a half years old.

You say your grandfather passed away, was that in Krakow?

Yes, yes, in 1922, in January 1922, I think so. And I'm not mistaken, could be a month before.

Was he buried in Krakow?

Yes, he was buried in Krakow.

While you were in gymnasium, you were growing up and the war began, were there signs of trouble before the war actually broke out?

Not really. It was some turmoil. I remember that our Minister Beck went to conference with the German people, and when he came back shortly afterwards, the war started.

Had economic conditions began to change at this time?

Definitely. The first thing they did, you know, after a short time, they took our homes, our furniture, and they sent us to ghetto.

When the war actually began, how quick after the war began were the Nazis in Krakow?

In few days, didn't took too long.

Can you tell me about that time?

We spent most time in bunkers because the shooting was terrible. And we thought we we are not going to survive.

During this time, the Polish army, were they fighting in your town?

They were fighting, but they didn't have good military. They didn't have the ammunition. They didn't have anything to fight really back hard.

When the Germans took over the city, can you tell me what changes started to take place then?

First of all, we have curfew, we couldn't walk certain hours. And then they tried to go to the Jewish home and took the possession of their homes and their material things, what we have, and like I said, furniture and everything. And they sent us to ghetto, it was after four or five months approximately.

Were your neighbors treating you any differently during this time?

Not really, because they been afraid themselves.

And the changes that it took place, did they take place for the Polish people as well as for the Jewish people?

I assume, I assume that the change has been for the Polish people too. But more aggravated was for the Jewish people.

Was your father able to continue work during this period?

Very short time. And my father has a very good friend that worked with our commander, the German commander, Frank Nazis. And the friend always used to give some points to my father, you know, when it's going to be bad or when going to be something that the German going to have like quota to deliver so many people. And this is why we spent most time in bunkers when something like that came.

How were the Nazis able to determine who were the Jewish people?

Probably by our names.

What was your first actual encounter with the Nazis?

I can't recall the date. I am completely blank.

Can you tell me what happened?

They came to the house, to the apartment, and they said, okay, 'Juden raus'. And we walk out with no possession at all. Just what we have on our bodies.

And they took you where?

They took us to the ghetto, Plaszów, where the Schindler list was made.

Did they take all the Jewish people in Krakow to this ghetto?

Most people went to this ghetto, some of them went to different ghettos.

Can you tell me about that ghetto, where it was located, the size of it, and so on?

The ghetto Plaszów was located just over the bridge, like here, for instance, Omaha/Council Bluffs, this where the ghetto was located.

Do you cross a river to get to the ghetto?

We crossed the bridge, yes.

What river was that?

Wisła, Vistula

And the ghetto was located, was it an area that was set aside as a ghetto? Were there houses there?

I assumed that before, you know, was ghetto, that the Gentile people were living there, too.

Did the Gentile people continue living there?

No, we've been just concentrate Jewish people in one place.

Do you have an idea how large that ghetto was?

No, I can't recall. No, I was young, and I just don't remember.

Were you able to stay together as a family in this ghetto?

Yes, we stayed family, and many time I went outside the ghetto, even so when we have guard, and organized some food.

Were you rationed to the food that you did have in the ghetto?

We been not, most time yes.

Can you describe a typical day in the ghetto?

Typical day in ghetto was that we been submit to very hard work, like digging ditches and clean the streets outside the ghetto.

When you said you left the ghetto to look for food, how were you treated by the Polish people at that time?

We used to wore, you know, the armband with Star of David, and I took, when I went outside the ghetto, I took the armband that they wouldn't recognize that I am Jewish. They didn't know that I am Jewish.

Were you required to wear this armband before you went into the ghetto?

No, just when we went to the ghetto.

You were wearing armbands?

Yes, yes.

Were you with anyone as far as family is concerned in the ghetto other than your immediate family, aunts, uncles, and so on?

Yes, I was with my uncle and aunt, and other aunt, sister of my father, and brother of my father, and one day the German Nazis came to control the building, and we know that they are coming. We hide in, I don't know, on the deck that opens the ceiling. And my uncle have little girl that was baby, maybe six, seven months old, maybe older, and she cried, and my uncle just put the little girl to sleep forever, because he wouldn't, he didn't want it to know the Germans, that we been, they're not just we, but the other people that live in the same building, been there. And that's why he killed his little girl, he choke her to death.

Were there a lot of you in hiding at that place?

Yes, yes.

What was the reaction of the other people that were in hiding with you?

It was horrible reaction, but you know, we been too many people there. And mine uncle was young, and instead to save, you know, the girl, he saved so many people. And he thought, okay, when I survive the war, I can still have family. But unfortunate, my aunt perished, and my uncle survived the war, and after the war, he remarried. He lives now in California.

How long were you in the Plaszow ghetto?

I was maybe one year, approximately, in 1941. And from 1941, I went to concentration camp Plaszow that was built on the Jewish cemetery.

Was the concentration camp Plaszow different than the ghetto Plaszow?

Oh, sure. It was very different, yes.

Was it a long distance away?

It was not very long distance away, no.

And how did you go from the ghetto to the concentration camp?

First of all, my mother and my sister were sent first. A few days later, my father, my brother and me, been in the lane to go to the concentration camp, and my brother was taken from my hands. He was almost 14 years old, and I never saw him again. And I came with my father and me to the Plaszow ghetto, concentration camp.

How did they select the people to go from the ghetto to the concentration camp?

It was not a big selection in Plaszow, except they took the babies, the young kids, and the music played lullabies, and the parents have to listen to the music. What they used to throw the babies from the windows, from third floor and fourth floor and whatever, to their death. I have aunt that has two kids, two childrens, girl and boy, and she didn't want to let the kids taken from her, and she did cut the veins of the kids and they own, and they both died.

As well as the aunt also?

Yes, the aunt went with the kids, yes.

This was in the ghetto?

Yes.

And you were in the ghetto, how long?

I was in ghetto until 41, I think, so 1941.

And you went in what year?

I would say 1940.

When you went from the ghetto to the concentration camp, can you describe the concentration camp for me?

The concentration camp, like I said, was built on the Jewish cemetery, and the man was separated from the woman. We been subject to hard work again, and this, this I was in this camp in 1944.

Do you remember who was the commander of that concentration camp?

Yes, the commander was Goeth, the first name I forgot.

And did you ever see him?

Yes, definitely. I saw them, yes.

Did you ever have any contact with him?

Yes, I did.

Can you describe that for me?

I was once sent to different camp because I found out that one of Schulkind, I was single then, is on the list to be sent toward a camp, and I was thinking that this was my mother. But instead my mother, I was chosen. And somebody did say that we have, or father did for us, like high boots, like the officers used to wear, and in between the sole they used to put that he used to, he put some golden dollars and the Russian golden money and somebody just did try to, how should I say, somebody said this to the Nazis. And then they took me, and I got 25 on my back, on my behind, and I was sent to the camp Wieliczka. They used to have the salt mines, but in the salt mines they have a factory of ammunition. And I was there for maybe two, three months, til my father have connection and brought me back to Plaszow, to the concentration camp, to the concentration camp Plaszow back.

Was it the commander of the camp, the concentration camp that gave you the lashes?

The lashes, no. He just directed some of the officers.

Was he there at the time you were given the lashes?

Yes, yes, yes.

Was that the only contact you had with him?

I have other contact. I used to work in (unclear), this is the factory where they used to do brushes. In this factory, mostly, the war kept in all the Jews and very religious Jews. And one Friday evening, you know, they didn't work like they should. And this commander passed and he saw the people sleeping. He came and he shoot, all the people that been working there and this was a (unclear) encounter.

Were you working in that brush factory at that time?

Yes, yes.

And you witnessed this?

I witnessed that, yes.

And this was the commander?

This was the commander Goeth.

And he just shot the people in the factory?

Yes.

How did you manage to escape at that time?

I don't know, it was my destiny. Probably I was young, I was the youngest maybe there. And I was lucky.

But he didn't kill everyone in the plant?

No, no, but most of them.

Did the plant continue in operation after this incident?

Definitely, sure. My sister wasn't there either because my sister did, I forgot to say. When we came to the concentration camp Plaszow with the short time. The first one that was taken from us was my sister, that she was sent to different camp, and we didn't know where she is.

How far from this concentration camp was this salt mine that you worked in?

Oh, I would say maybe 40 miles, maybe 50 miles.

And you lived at the salt mine during the time you were working there?

No, I lived in barracks.

In the concentration camp?

In the village camp, you know. But I was there just short time.

You did while you were there?

In time that I was in Wieliczka, I did underground work in the producing of ammunition.

Were you working a long day?

I would say I worked maybe ten hours.

A day?

A day.

Did you work seven days a week?

Every single day, seven day a week, yes.

No days off?

No days off.

What was a typical day like as far as food is concerned?

The food was horrible, and we've been under nourish because we didn't have like food at home. We have black coffee, we have slice of bread a day, and maybe soup that was made from flowers and water. This was our nourishment.

And how long were you in this mine?

Maybe three months, and then I was brought back to the concentration camp Plaszow.

How were you treated while you were in the mine?

I was treated pretty good because I was working hard.

And your job was working with ammunition?

With ammunition, yes. The most people, they've been there in the camp, they been working in the ammunition.

Were your overseers the German soldiers?

They been guarding us, and they been watching over us constantly.

And how were you treated by them?

I wasn't treated very bad because, like I say, I did mine quota what I have to do. We got quota how much we have to produce, and I was treated not bad.

What led up to them sending you back to the concentration camp from this mine?

My father had some influence with the upper people that tried to get me back. Not that they send me voluntary, it was my father that tried to do that for me.

And when you returned to the ghetto?

No, it was Plaszow concentration camp Plaszow no ghetto.

To the concentration camp. Were you reunited then with your family?

I was reunited just with my mother. My father was in different place because men wasn't together with women.

And your sister was no longer with you at this time?

Mine sister was sent, the first one from the concentration camp to different camp that we lost completely knowledge where she went.

And how long then did your mother and you remain in this concentration camp?

We remain in Plaszow till October 1944.

And how were conditions in the concentration camp for you during that period?

The condition been horrible. We'd been sleeping on the back back, how you call it, the bunk beds. And very crowded. We didn't have cover, to cover at night. We didn't have pajamas. We wash our clothes and try to dry on the our bodies. And it was very bad condition.

Had food changed much from the time you left the salt mine until you were back at the concentration camp?

No, the food didn't change too much, no.

Was comparable?

It was very, yes.

When you were back in the concentration camp, were conditions changing? Were they taking people away during this period?

They used to have quotas, especially from the older people. Like every day, so many people had to be delivered to their death. And my grandmother was with us and happened that she was called to. She came to our barrack and she said bye to us. She took Bible with her and she said the upstairs is calling her. They have to jump to the mass graves with face to the dirt. And they've been shot in the back of their heads.

Did you actually witness any of this shooting or was this something that you had heard?

We heard. You could heard the shooting.

Was this nearby where your barrack was?

Yes, yes, yes.

Did the people that were ordered to leave, the older people, did they have an idea where they were going, where they were being led?

I assume that they know because previous, you know, the previous people they'd been taken. They know it where they going.

And was the commander still the same during this period of time?

The same commander, yes, Commander Goeth.

When you returned from the mine and were in this concentration camp, did you ever again have contact with this commander?

I saw him, I saw him, yes, but personal contact I didn't have with him.

How long did you remain in this concentration camp then?

I remained til 1944, October 1944.

And then where did you go?

Then, again, we've been taken to destination, don't know destination. We've been packed on the [unclear] trains, cattle trains, that we didn't know what the what the train was going to take us.

Were you still with your mother at this time?

I was with my mother, yes.

And where did you go then?

When we arrive, the sign was saying that we arrive in camp Auschwitz.

How long did that trip take, do you remember?

No, probably four days.

Can you describe the conditions in the cars?

The condition been horrible. We didn't have restrooms, the people, the necessity, they have to do in the train. And, again, we didn't got any food for four days.

Did everyone leave the concentration camp of Plaszow on this trip when you went to Auschwitz?

What do you mean of anybody left?

Did they empty the concentration camp out there?

No, no, no.

There were still people there?

Still people there.

And you arrived in Auschwitz, can you describe that for me?

We arrived at night, and Auschwitz was guarded by the Nazis, by the German people. We been taken supposedly to showers. But before we went to the shower, people went to selection. The older people went left, the younger people went right. The one that went left, they went to death. And I survive, and I was [shielding] my mother, and she survived with me, the selection.

At the selection, did you have any idea what the selection was being done for? Did you know where people were being led to?

No, we didn't know, absolute nothing. From there, we been taken to Birkenau by Bergen-Belsen. And this was ready November, and we've been put in cells.

How long were you in Auschwitz before you went to Birkenau?

I was just few days, I'm sorry, I was two weeks in Auschwitz. And because I saw the chambers, and I was fearing of my mother that one day maybe she will be taken from me, I saved lipstick when my clothes was taken and given to me the, you know, (unclear) clothing. I saved the lipstick, and every morning I put on my mother's cheek the lipstick that she looks healthy. And this way I saved my mother. And one day, I said to my mom, you know what? I don't think so that I can stand it to be here. And I saw lane, and I said to mother, how about then we just intrude to the lane, and we're going to leave. And I don't know where this goes, but I don't want to stay here. And this what happened, we went to the lane, and again, we've been packed on the train, animal trains, and that brought us to Bergen-Belsen.

When you were in Auschwitz, that two-week period, what were you doing, any kind of work?

Again, I dig I dig ditches, hard work.

And then when you were transferred to Birkenau from Auschwitz, how long did that trip take?

The trip from Auschwitz to Birkenau took maybe two days.

And how did you travel?

By train, animal train.

And how long were you in Birkenau?

In Birkenau. I came in November, and we've been sleeping in tents. And one day, we have terrible storm that destroyed the tents, and we been transferred to barracks where once the military, the German military was living this was living quarter for them. And I was in Birkenau maybe maybe one month, and then I was transferred again to Bergen-Belsen.

Now, isn't it correct that Birkenau is very nearby Auschwitz?

Yes, it's very nearby Bergen-Belsen.

And then from Birkenau, you went to Bergen-Belsen?

Yes.

And how long did that trip take?

Didn't took too long, because it's not very far.

And how long were you in Bergen-Belsen?

I was in Bergen-Belsen til liberation til April 15, 1945.

And you arrived there at what time in Bergen-Belsen?

I can't recall.

How were conditions in Bergen-Belsen when you arrived?

The worst condition that was in Auschwitz, in Plaszow. This was the worst condition that I ever experiment.

Do you think that was because the war was nearing an end?

I assume this must be.

Were you given much to eat there?

Again, our diet was in morning from the flower soup and water. And then evening, we got like half slice of bread, and this was our food for the whole day. And I discussed with my mother many times, what should I do? Should I eat the bread now, or should I save for the morning? But I ate because I have I was hungry.

Were you doing work while you were in Bergen-Belsen?

Sure. They wouldn't feed me when I wouldn't work.

Was the death rate pretty high there at that time?

Very high, and notjust the death rate was high. People got very sick, typhoid, both kind, the abdominal and the fleck typhoid. And people got dysentery and many different sicknesses.

How was your treatment there by the guards?

Bad, very bad.

Can you compare that with your treatment at Auschwitz and at Plaszow?

And I think it was worse, much worse than in Plaszow.

Did you have any idea at this time that the war was nearing an end?

One day, this was before the liberation, we hear big noises. And because the German know it, that comes to end, many of them escape. They put the white armbands that they are willingly, you know, going to submit themselves to the liberation military. But before they escaped, they came back and took maybe three, four days to the liberation. They poisoned the water. They didn't give us anything to eat. And then one morning, we heard the noises and we thought that the camp is going to be destroyed by the German before we liberated. But thank goodness happened that the English soldier liberate us.

Can you describe that time for me when you were liberated?

The time was, I don't know if we been happy or we been sad. Everybody was crying. And the first thing that came to our minds was if our father is alive, or brother is alive, or sister is alive, and how we're going to search for them. And meantime happened another thing, like with my mother. My mother was very, very sick, she has thrombosis in both leg. Shee went to latrine, you know what latrine is. She fell, and we have to rescue her because otherwise she would drown. And, you know...

She had fallen into the latrine?

Yes, yes. And was not very pleasant, even the liberation.

At this time were you fed then by the British?

We been fed too much, I think so, because afterwards many people got very sick and they died from over eating. Lot of cans, lot of meat, fat food that we been not used to for so many years.

How long did you remain in Bergen-Belsen after you were liberated?

I remain in Bergen-Belsen. We been transferred from Bergen-Belsen to Hamburg, and then I remain til July. And I heard that transport is going to Sweden. And because of my mother that was very sick, I choose to go to Sweden, and this was July 15, 1945.

Were you able to take your mother to Hamburg? Was this a displaced persons camp in Hamburg?

This was this was, I don't know of this, I can call it camp. It wasn't camp because this happened after the liberation.

Was your mother hospitalized at this time?

My mother my mother was for short time hospitalized, but then I chose to go to Sweden where she was in sanatorium there.

Who took you from Hamburg to Sweden?

Not just me. It was group of other liberated Jews that went, you know, to Sweden. Probably the Swedish government.

Were you offered an opportunity to go back to Poland at this time?

I was offered, but I wouldn't go.

And you were able to go to Sweden, can you describe that for me?

Sweden was wonderful, wonderful country. I owe them a lot, I never forget what they did for us. I was working after the quarantine for weeks. I was working in sanatorium there. And meantime, I got notice through the Red Cross from my sister. But before I got the notice, we search for my family, for father. I wrote to England and I wrote to other places to see of anybody from my nearest family is alive. And then I remember that I have uncle.

I did have uncle in Montevideo, Uruguay. And when he emigrate from Germany, he went from Poland to Germany to study, but he didn't stay too long in Germany. He went from Germany, he'd been like intruder on the ship. On the on the . . . he wanted to go to North America, but the ship brought him to South America. And I know that he lives in Montevideo, Uruguay. And I wrote German letter to the police department in Montevideo.

And he was a very well-known person because he spoke eight languages and he was kind of director of hotel, biggest hotel in Uruguay. And they know him very well. And they said to him, you have letter from Europe. And he wrote us back and he sent us right away some money. And he did for us the immigration paper to South America. In meantime, I got notice from my sister that she lives, that she's still alive, and she lives in Munich, and she wrote letter to us.

And she requests that we would come to Germany, but I wrote back and I said, it's impossible because we have already the paper for the immigration, but I promise, when I come to South America, I'm going to make paper for you, okay? I stay in Sweden one year. In 1946, in July, I emigrated to South America.

What did you do while you were in Sweden?

I was working in Sanatorium like LPN nurse.

And how did you travel from Hamburg to Sweden?

We went to Lübeck. You say Lübeck, but is Lübeck. And from Lübeck, I went to Malmö. And from Malmö, I went to the place where my mother was put to the Sanatorium.

Who was it that took you to Sweden? Was it the Red Cross?

I assumed there must be Red Cross.

And how large a group went to Sweden, do you recall that?

Maybe in my group, because constantly people used to come to Sweden, in my group, maybe we been like 25 people.

And you were with your mother at this time?

I always with my mother, yes.

When did you learn, or did you ever learn officially what happened to your father, to your brother?

I was writing to one of our senators that was in England, and I never have respond. And I searched for the names but never came any answer. And I assumed that, you know, he perished. And somebody, I think, told us that two days before the war was over, he was taken to Flossenburg concentration camp. And two days before, he he perished.

Was he gone from the family a long time after Plaszow?

He was he left, I think so. He stayed in Plaszow and we've been sent to Auschwitz. And he said to my mom, when you go with Helena, with me, then you are not going to last too long. My father was very optimistic and he always thought that the war is over tomorrow.

When did you then reunite with your sister?

I reunite with sister first time when my oldest son, his bar mitzvah in Montevideo. And my sister came to the bar mitzvah of my son in 1961.

When you left Sweden, was it just you and your mother traveled then to Montevideo?

Yes.

And what year was that?

1946, July 1946.

And you met your husband to be in Montevideo?

I came to Montevideo and right away I lived with my aunt and uncle for a short time. But I'm very independent and I didn't want it to be burdened to them. And I decided, and I said to my mother, we have to go on for our self. I look for quarters to live. And I've been involved right away with the German society, Jewish society, and they did help me lot.

And I got my room, and they helped me to found job. And afterwards, you know, I start to socialize. I didn't have too much, I didn't have clothes. What I have was just one dress and one skirt and one blouse, and this was enough for me. But because of the society, I start to socialize. And then one day, I found job that I was taking care of a boy that was maybe two years old.

And this, there's been immigrants from, he was from Romania. And his wife was French lady, Jewish lady, very religious people, and the name was Gottlieb. He was in oil business. And one day, he has visit from Argentina. And the visit, the family that came, they went from Poland Krakow. And the lady said to him, you know what? I think so that I know the parents, my parents, my father and my mother.

They've been very good friends with my parents. And she said to him, from what kind home I came. Okay, next day, he said to me, Fraulein Schulkind, look for some location, maybe you going to open store. I say, what kind store, I don't have money for it. And I didn't look for any location, but he did it. And one day, he said, okay, I bought for you delicatessen store. And you can move in the same location as quarters to live.

And you can let your mom, you know, have the store. And this was blessing. I was very embarrassed because I'm very proud person. And I tried to pay him back afterwards. In meantime, I met my husband by friends. And this was in August 25, 1947.

Was your husband also a survivor?

My husband was survive. He came before the war started to Ur- Montevideo. He came in November 14 of December 1938. But he was one week in concentration camp Buchenwald. In Kristallnacht, he was taken to the concentration camp. The parents tried to, they started to make paper for immigration before he was taken to the camp. And luckily, the paper came after one week, and he was released from the camp.

What city did he live in prior to the war?

In Gliwice.

Gliwice. That was part of Germany then?

Yes. There was upper Silesia.

Reel three interview with Mrs. Tichauer. You were saying that you had this little delicatessen in Uruguay. How well did you do there?

I didn't do very well, I tell you why, because the delicatessen store was in Jewish neighborhood. We didn't have the equipment, like fridgerators, we have just ice box. And then we didn't know Spanish, we mostly spoke German or Polish. Then the Jewish people came and they would say, (unclear). Because I spoke Polish. Then I spoke German, they would say, okay, the Germans should grow what they had in the dirt, just like onions. And I didn't have any other choice, I learned, you know, Spanish and I have to learn Jewish. I didn't spoke Jewish either.

Were you successful at all in this store?

We survive, we survive. I wasn't successful, but we survive. But thank goodness that I met good man, and after a month that we know each other, I got engaged. And after three months, I got married. My husband's occupation was glazier. And one day when he went to work, I decide just to close my delicatessen store, clean up, sell out, and leave the store with four walls that he can put his own business. And this what I did, have lot of guts.

And he put his business into the store?

Yes, the business in the store, yes.

And was he successful with the business?

Oh, yeah, he was successful. He was very hard worker. He was artist in his job and his work.

Now what year did you arrive in Uruguay?

I arrived in 1946.

And you were married in what year?

1947, 13th of December, 1947.

And how long did you remain in Uruguay?

I remained in Uruguay till 1963, June 1963.

Did you have a family by this time?

I have two boys, yes. Two boys that were born there, yes.

And what prompted you to move to the United States?

Because I went through so much, and the political situation after Fidel Castro took over Cuba changed so much in the whole South American continent that I was fearing a future of my children's. I live my life, and I said I would like something better for my children's. And this way, we decide to come to United States. Even so, my sister always was writing come to United States, but my husband never wanted to leave South America. And South America was called once, Swiss from the, Uruguay was called, Swiss from the South America.

Were you sponsored by someone to come to this country, or how did you manage?

I didn't have to be sponsored because I pay my own fare, and we have to present our bank book, what we what we have, and the paper that we got, what that we obtained just in three months.

And your sister was living in Omaha, Nebraska at this time?

Yes, my sister was living here.

Is that the reason you chose to come to Omaha?

This what I choose to come, even so that my decision, okay our decision was to go to Israel, and we have lined up even place where we want to go. We want to, was Tiv'on, I think so, and my husband would be able to work in his profession. But my sister insist, come first to United States, you don't like it, you always can go back to Israel, but nobody goes back. Once we came here, we stayed here, and I love it.

And you were able to raise your two sons in this country?

I been I raised my two kids in this country that I'm very proud of them. And they are good kids, very hard hard worker. They have wonderful family and childrens.

How many grandchildren do you have?

I have five grandchildrens. The oldest is going to be 21 in March. My youngest son, girl, is 20. Then comes other girl from an oldest son, she's going to be 18. And then come middle daughter from my youngest son that is 17. And my youngest grandchild is 14 years old, and he's going to become eagle next week, boy scout eagle next week.

That's very nice. And your husband passed away when Mrs. Tichauer?

My husband pass away in 1992, 10 of January.

And what kind of work did he do in this country?

He did not in his profession, but because when we came here, he was senior to me by 15 and a half years, and he couldn't get job in his profession because of union. He had to work for Maury Udes and Builder Supply, and he was very unhappy, very unhappy.

Have you ever had an opportunity to return to Europe?

Yes, I was few times in Europe.

Not to Poland, though?

No, I wouldn't go to Poland. Doesn't tie me anything. I don't have anybody there.

Did you happen to visit Bergen-Belsen when you returned?

No, I never visit Bergen-Belsen.

Now that all these years have passed and the happiness with a family and grandchildren, do you have a message that you would like to leave?

I have message, and I hope. You know, I am very angry, very bitter, even there are not Jewish what is happening in Yugoslavia and Bosnia and whatever, because I thought that Holocaust is not going to happen again, and it's happening, and that's what makes me very, very sad when you when I watch the television and I see the childrens gunned and parents and all the people.

It brings back a lot of memories, doesn't it?

Memories, and and I don't think it's human. And I tell you just one thing I thinks of, and we would have help in the time that I went to Holocaust early, that probably we could save more people. That the six million plus wouldn't perish, because not just Jew perish, but non Jews the same way.

I would like to thank you for allowing us into your home to tape this interview.

And I am just sad that the history repeats and people are forgetting.

Thank you very much, Mrs. Tichauer.

And I am glad that you could interview me, and I hope that this going to be left for the younger generation that don't know what is what happened, and they would learn not from this interview, not just me, but whatever work you do.

Thank you.

And I appreciate this, too. Thank you.

Mrs. Tichauer, can you tell me about this photograph?

This photograph is my family picture that been taken in Ghetto Plaszow in 1940s. This is my father that perished, my mother that passed away here in Omaha, 1967. My brother that perished before we even went to concentration camp. He was 13 and a half years old. My sister, Lola, that lives here in Omaha, and she's two and a half year younger than me and myself.

Mrs. Tichauer, can you describe this photograph for me?

This picture is my wedding picture. I wed in 1947, 13th of December.

And where was this taken?

In Montevideo, Uruguay, South America.

Can you tell me who's in this photograph?

This picture was taken ten years ago, approximately. And I have in this picture my husband that I lost four years ago, my two sons, my oldest son, Carl, my youngest son, Fred, Carl's wife, Gail, Cory, son, that is going to be 21 years old, Jamie, that is going to be 18 years old in June, and then Fred, family. Marty's his wife, my daughter-in-law. Kelly, that was 20 years old in November. Randy, that was 17 years old in December, and Ryan, that was 14 years in November.

Mrs. Tichauer, can you tell me what this is?

This is lighthouse that I chose after I had my head surgery in 1974. I chose to have some hobbies because I was a convalescent at home for one year, and I didn't know what to do with my life, and I start to paint.

And this is a painting of a lighthouse?

Lighthouse, yes.

Can you describe this painting for me?

This painting was taken in Canada, in Winnipeg Beach. It's Marina from Winnipeg.

And when did you paint this?

The year is there, I don't know, I don't remember. I just put the year on the picture.

Mrs. Tichauer can you introduce this young man for us?

This young man is my youngest son named Fred. I am very proud of him and my oldest son that couldn't be here with us. He has college education, he's a very fine man. He has a very responsible job, and I'm really, really proud of both of my kids.

Fred, having grown up being the child of a survivor, do you have anything you'd like to add to this interview?

Well, I tell you, the challenges I face every day, it's hard for me to imagine what they went through, and I think all of us need to reflect on the terrible, terrible tragedies that happened, and I feel that I have a lot of responsibility because of what my parents went through. I know that they've been a real inspiration to me. When you talk about surviving, there's nothing that compares to what they went through, and that's definitely a challenge for me to be able to live up to and do the best I can to be responsible and hopefully share in what I have to share with young people today, to let them know that today their problems are nothing compared to what survivors what went through in World War II.

Thank you very much, Fred. Thank you, Mrs. Tichauer.

You're very welcome, and I am very proud that you could come.

That's the reason I get offered...