From the collection of the USC Shoah Foundation
Interviews are from the archive of the
USC Shoah Foundation - The Institute for Visual History and Education
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January 22, 1996, interview with Helena Tichauer, T-I-C-H-A-U-E-R. My name is Ben Nachman. I'm the interviewer. Omaha, Nebraska. Language English. Can you give me your name, please?
Helena TichauerMy name is Helena Tichauer.
Ben NachmanAnd how do you spell that?
Helena TichauerH-E-L-E-N-A T-I-C-H-A-U-E-R.
Ben NachmanAnd can you tell me what your maiden name was?
Helena TichauerIt's Schulkind. S-C-H-U-L-K-I-N-D.
Ben NachmanAnd when were you born?
Helena TichauerI am born 1922 in December in Krakow.
Ben NachmanKrakow, Poland?
Helena TichauerPoland.
Ben NachmanCan you describe your life in Poland growing up before the war?
Helena TichauerMy life was very good. I have a wonderful childhood. My father was good provider. He was electronic electric engineer. And I am the oldest one from my two other siblings. And this what I can recall.
Ben NachmanWere your siblings older or younger than you?
Helena TichauerI am the oldest one and the wisest one.
Ben NachmanOf the three?
Helena TichauerOf the three. My youngest brother perished in the last war in the Holocaust.
Ben NachmanAnd your sister?
Helena TichauerMy sister is surviving and she lives here in Omaha. And she is two and a half years younger than me.
Ben NachmanDid you grow up in a house or were you living in an apartment?
Helena TichauerWe live in apartment.
Ben NachmanWas it a large apartment?
Helena TichauerPretty large apartment, yes.
Ben NachmanA lot of other people living there?
Helena TichauerIt was big house. It was big house, has I don't know, four four floors.
Ben NachmanWere there mostly Jewish people living in this apartment?
Helena TichauerNo, no, just most been mix.
Ben NachmanAnd did you get along well with your neighbors?
Helena TichauerWe get very good, very good. That was not like like here. You know, we didn't sit too much by our neighbors. We didn't look what the cooking and whatever. We didn't gossip so much.
Ben NachmanAnd were you, did you grow up in a religious home?
Helena TichauerMy father came from a religious home, but he was very liberal. We observed our holidays, but home wasn't very religious.
Ben NachmanAnd how about your mother? What was her upbringing?
Helena TichauerMy mother came from less religious, pretty much religious, but not like father's side. And again, mother was very liberal. We didn't kept kosher. We observed the holidays, but we were not big fanatics.
Ben NachmanDid you grow up in an area where you attended a religious school, Hebrew school?
Helena TichauerNo, we have a private tutor at home that taught us Hebrew, Sephardic Hebrew, not Ashkenaz.
Ben NachmanAnd what kind of educational background do you have?
Helena TichauerI have a grade school, and I have gymnasium that is equal to the high school here.
Ben NachmanDid you attend school beyond gymnasium?
Helena TichauerI couldn't because I was just sixteen and a half years old when the war started in 1939, 1st of September. And I didn't have the opportunities. But during the war, during, after the war, I have some training in nursing. And whatever I know, I taught myself.
Ben NachmanDid you finish gymnasium?
Helena TichauerNo, no, I didn't have the opportune, no.
Ben NachmanCan you describe your daily life in growing up prior to the war?
Helena TichauerMy life was wonderful. We took time every year for vacation, for three months vacation, when we have school vacation. We went different places. We used to ski with our father. I used to skate with my mother. And the life was wonderful.
Ben NachmanDuring this vacation time, would you go away?
Helena TichauerWe used to go away, yes.
Ben NachmanWith your entire family?
Helena TichauerYes. My dad couldn't go, you know, for a long time, like three months. But every weekend, he always used to come to visit.
Ben NachmanWhat were some of the places you would go on vacation?
Helena TichauerWe go, we went to the Carpaths, like Zakopane. We went to Czarn. We went to Zawoja, you know, many, many different places.
Ben NachmanWere these resort areas in Poland?
Helena TichauerThey've been resort area, yes.
Ben NachmanIn the Carpathian Mountains?
Helena TichauerMm-hmm.
Ben NachmanWas the Jewish community active that you lived in?
Helena TichauerI didn't live in really Jewish community. Most of my young life was spent in neighborhoods where not too many Jews were living.
Ben NachmanAnd your treatment was good?
Helena TichauerYes.
Ben NachmanYou got along well with your Polish neighbors?
Helena TichauerOh, definitely. We did.
Ben NachmanWhat kind of work did your father do?
Helena TichauerMy father was engineer, electric engineer.
Ben NachmanWas he working for himself?
Helena TichauerOh, sure. We have we have employees, sure.
Ben NachmanAnd specifically, what did he do?
Helena TichauerHe used to work with architects and new buildings. He used to install escalators, electrical – how do you call it? – escalators. And he installed, like, OPPD on small, smaller scale in small town in Poland that was working on the water turbines. And even so, here in Omaha, you have people that know my father, the rich ones, you know rich ones. What he used to leave for my father did the electric — how you call — company.
Ben NachmanWhere did he receive his education?
Helena TichauerMy father received education in Vienna after World War I. He went to the Polytechnical in Vienna.
Ben NachmanHad your family lived in Poland for quite a number of years?
Helena TichauerYes, my forefathers even are born in Krakow. And my parents been born under the Austrian occupation.
Ben NachmanKrakow was then part of the Austro-Hungarian —
Helena TichauerWas Galicia, yes, it was occupied by the Austrian.
Ben NachmanDuring your growing up years, did you have any anti-Semitism that you knew of?
Helena TichauerProbably we did, but I didn't feel the anti-Semitism. And I assumed that in Poland, you know, the Polish people are anti-Semitic.
Ben NachmanDid you attend a synagogue on holidays?
Helena TichauerYes.
Ben NachmanDid you attend a synagogue on Sabbath?
Helena TichaerNo.
Ben NachmanJust on holidays?
Helena TichauerJust on high holidays and some major holidays.
Ben NachmanDid you have a lot of family living in Krakow?
Helena TichauerYes.
Ben NachmanCan you tell me who you had in family?
Helena TichauerI have uncles and I have cousins and I have aunts. And the father's family was very big because he comes from 11 siblings. And each one was married and each one has own family.
Ben NachmanAnd how about on your mother's side, was it a large family?
Helena TichauerOn mother's side, my mother's side has three brothers. My mother was just only girl. And again, we came together once in awhile, but the family wasn't so big.
Ben NachmanDid the family get together for holidays?
Helena TichauerYes, definitely. We usually used to go to our grandparents because they kept kosher and we were not kosher. I have grandmother that wouldn't drink even glass of water in our house
Ben NachmanDid they also live in Krakow?
Helena TichauerYes.
Ben NachmanDid you grow up then with two sets of grandparents?
Helena TichauerYes, no. On mother's side, I have both grandparents. On father's side, I just have grandmother. My grandfather passed away when he was 42 years old and I didn't know him.
Ben NachmanAnd you were close to the family, the relatives?
Helena TichauerVery, very close.
Ben NachmanHow old were you when the war began?
Helena TichauerI was 16 and a half years old.
Ben NachmanYou say your grandfather passed away, was that in Krakow?
Helena TichauerYes, yes, in 1922, in January 1922, I think so. And I'm not mistaken, could be a month before.
Ben NachmanWas he buried in Krakow?
Helena TichauerYes, he was buried in Krakow.
Ben NachmanWhile you were in gymnasium, you were growing up and the war began, were there signs of trouble before the war actually broke out?
Helena TichauerNot really. It was some turmoil. I remember that our Minister Beck went to conference with the German people, and when he came back shortly afterwards, the war started.
Ben NachmanAnd economic conditions began to change at this time?
Helena TichauerDefinitely. The first thing they did, you know, after a short time, they took our homes, our furniture, and they sent us to ghetto.
Ben NachmanWhen the war actually began, how quick after the war began were the Nazis in Krakow?
Helena TichauerIn few days, didn't took too long.
Ben NachmanCan you tell me about that time?
Helena TichauerWe spent most time in bunkers because the shooting was terrible. And we thought we we are not going to survive.
Ben NachmanDuring this time, the Polish army, were they fighting in your town?
Helena TichauerThey were fighting, but they didn't have good military. They didn't have the ammunition. They didn't have anything to fight really back hard.
Ben NachmanWhen the Germans took over the city, can you tell me what changes started to take place then?
Helena TichauerFirst of all, we have curfew, we couldn't walk certain hours. And then they tried to go to the Jewish home and took the possession of their homes and their material things, what we have, and like I said, furniture and everything. And they sent us to ghetto, it was after four or five months approximately.
Ben NachmanWere your neighbors treating you any differently during this time?
Helena TichauerNot really, because they been afraid themselves.
Ben NachmanAnd the changes that it took place, did they take place for the Polish people as well as for the Jewish people?
Helena TichauerI assume, I assume that the change has been for the Polish people too. But more aggravated was for the Jewish people.
Ben NachmanWas your father able to continue work during this period?
Helena TichauerVery short time. And my father has a very good friend that worked with our commander, the German commander, Frank Nazis. And the friend always used to give some points to my father, you know, when it's going to be bad or when going to be something that the German going to have like quota to deliver so many people. And this is why we spent most time in bunkers when something like that came.
Ben NachmanHow were the Nazis able to determine who were the Jewish people?
Helena TichauerProbably by our names.
Ben NachmanWhat was your first actual encounter with the Nazis?
Helena NachmanI can't recall the date. I am completely blank.
Ben NachmanCan you tell me what happened?
Helena TichauerThey came to the house, to the apartment, and they said, okay, 'Juden raus'. And we walk out with no possession at all. This is what we have on our bodies.
Ben NachmanAnd they took you where?
Helena TichauerThey took us to the ghetto, Plaszów, where the Schindler list was made.
Ben NachmanDid they take all the Jewish people in Krakow to this ghetto?
Helena TichauerMost people went to this ghetto, some of them went to different ghettos.
Ben NachmanCan you tell me about that ghetto, where it was located, the size of it, and so on?
Helena TichauerThe ghetto Plaszów was located just over the bridge, like here, for instance, Omaha/Council Bluffs, this where the ghetto was located.
Ben NachmanDo you cross a river to get to the ghetto?
Helena TichauerWe crossed the bridge, yes.
Ben NachmanWhat river was that?
Helena TichauerViswa, Vistula
Ben NachmanAnd the ghetto was located, was it an area that was set aside as a ghetto? Were there houses there?
Helena TichauerI assumed that before, you know, was ghetto, that the Gentile people were living there, too.
Ben NachmanDid the Gentile people continue living there?
Helena TichauerNo, we've been just concentrate Jewish people in one place.
Ben NachmanDo you have an idea how large that ghetto was?
Helena TichauerNo, I can't recall. No, I was young, and I just don't remember.
Ben NachmanWere you able to stay together as a family in this ghetto?
Helena TichauerYes, we stayed family, and many time I went outside the ghetto, even so when we have guard, and organized some food.
Ben NachmanWere you rationed to the food that you did have in the ghetto?
Helena TichauerWe been not, most time yes.
Ben NachmanCan you describe a typical day in the ghetto?
Helena TichauerTypical day in ghetto was that we been submit to very hard work, like digging ditches and clean the streets outside the ghetto.
Ben NachmanWhen you said you left the ghetto to look for food, how were you treated by the Polish people at that time?
Helena TichauerWe used to wore, you know, the armband with Star of David, and I took, when I went outside the ghetto, I took the armband that they wouldn't recognize that I am Jewish. They didn't know that I am Jewish.
Ben NachmanWere you required to wear this armband before you went into the ghetto?
Helena TichauerNo, just when we went to the ghetto.
Ben NachmanYou were wearing armbands?
Helena TichauerYes, yes.
Ben NachmanWere you with anyone as far as family is concerned in the ghetto other than your immediate family, aunts, uncles, and so on?
Helena TichauerYes, I was with my uncle and aunt, and other aunt, sister of my father, and brother of my father, and one day the German Nazis came to control the building, and we know that they are coming. We hide in, I don't know, on the deck that opens the ceiling. And my uncle have little girl that was baby, maybe six, seven months old, maybe older, and she cried, and my uncle just put the little girl to sleep forever, because he wouldn't, he didn't want it to know the Germans, that we been, they're not just we, but the other people that live in the same building, been there. And that's why he killed his little girl, he choke her to death.
Ben NachmanWere there a lot of you in hiding at that place?
Helena TichauerYes, yes.
Ben NachmanWhat was the reaction of the other people that were in hiding with you?
Helena TichauerIt was horrible reaction, but you know, we been too many people there. And mine uncle was young, and instead to save, you know, the girl, he saved so many people. And he thought, okay, when I survive the war, I can still have family. But unfortunate, my aunt perished, and my uncle survived the war, and after the war, he remarried. He lives now in California.
Ben NachmanHow long were you in the Plaszow ghetto?
Helena TichauerI was maybe one year, approximately, in 1941. And from 1941, I went to concentration camp Plaszow that was built on the Jewish cemetery.
Ben NachmanWas the concentration camp Plaszow different than the ghetto Plaszow?
Helena TichauerOh, sure. It was very different, yes.
Ben NachmanWas it a long distance away?
Helena TichauerIt was not very long distance away, no.
Ben NachmanAnd how did you go from the ghetto to the concentration camp?
Helena TichauerFirst of all, my mother and my sister were sent first. A few days later, my father, my brother and me, been in the lane to go to the concentration camp, and my brother was taken from my hands. He was almost 14 years old, and I never saw him again. And I came with my father and me to the Plaszow ghetto, concentration camp.
Ben NachmanHow did they select the people to go from the ghetto to the concentration camp?
Helana TichauerIt was not a big selection in Plaszow, except they took the babies, the young kids, and the music played lullabies, and the parents have to listen to the music. What they used to throw the babies from the windows, from third floor and fourth floor and whatever, to their death. I have aunt that has two kids, two childrens, girl and boy, and she didn't want to let the kids taken from her, and she did cut the veins of the kids and they own, and they both died.
Ben NachmanAs well as the aunt also?
Helena TichauerYes, the aunt went with the kids, yes.
Ben NachmanThis was in the ghetto?
Helena TichauerYes.
Ben NachmanAnd you were in the ghetto, how long?
Helena TichauerI was in ghetto until 41, I think, so 1941.
Ben NachmanAnd you went in what year?
Helena TichauerI would say 1940.
Ben NachmanWhen you went from the ghetto to the concentration camp, can you describe the concentration camp for me?
Helena TichauerThe concentration camp, like I said, was built on the Jewish cemetery, and the man was separated from the woman. We been subject to hard work again, and I was in this camp in 1944.
Ben NachmanDo you remember who was the commander of that concentration camp?
Helena TichauerYes, the commander was Goeth, the first name I forgot.
Ben NachmanAnd did you ever see him?
Helena TichauerYes, definitely. I saw them, yes.
Ben NachmanDid you ever have any contact with him?
Helena TichaerYes, I did.
Ben NachmanCan you describe that for me?
Helena TichauerI was once sent to different camp because I found out that one of Schulkind, I was single then, is on the list to be sent toward a camp, and I was thinking that this was my mother. But instead my mother, I was chosen. And somebody did say that we have, or father did for us, like high boots, like the officers used to wear, and in between us all they used to put that he used to, he put some golden dollars and the Russian golden money and somebody just did try to, how should I say, somebody said this to the Nazis. And then they took me, and I got 25 on my back, on my behind, and I was sent to the camp Wieliczka. They used to have the salt mines, but in the salt mines they have a factory of ammunition. And I was there for maybe two, three months, till my father have connection and brought me back to Plaszow, to the concentration camp, to the concentration camp Plaszow back.
Ben NachmanWas it the commander of the camp, the concentration camp that gave you the lashes?
Helena TichauerThe lashes, no. He just, direct in some of the officers.
Ben NachmanWas he there at the time you were given the lashes?
Helena TichauerYes, yes, yes.
Ben NachmanWas that the only contact you had with him?
Helena TichauerI have other contact. I used to work in (unclear), this is the factory where they used to do brushes. In this factory, mostly, the war kept in all the Jews and very religious Jews. And one Friday evening, you know, they didn't work like they should. And this commander passed and he saw the people sleeping. He came and he shoot, all the people that been working there and this was a (unclear) encounter.
Ben NachmanWere you working in that brush factory at that time?
Helena TichauerYes, yes.
Ben NachmanAnd you witnessed this?
Helena TichauerI witnessed that, yes.
Ben NachmanAnd this was the commander?
Helena TichauerThis was the commander Goeth.
Ben NachmanAnd he just shot the people in the factory?
Helena TichauerYes.
Ben NachmanHow did you manage to escape at that time?
Helena TichauerI don't know, it was my destiny. Probably I was young, I was the youngest maybe there. And I was lucky.
Ben NachmanBut he didn't kill everyone in the plant?
Helena TichauerNo, no, but most of them.
Ben NachmanDid the plant continue in operation after this incident?
Helena TichauerDefinitely, sure. My sister wasn't there either because my sister did, I forgot to say. Then we came to the concentration camp Plaszow with the short time. The first one that was taken from us was my sister, that she was sent to different camp, and we didn't know where she is.
Ben NachmanHow far from this concentration camp was this salt mine that you worked in?
Helena TichauerOh, I would say maybe 40 miles, maybe 50 miles.
Ben NachmanAnd you lived at the salt mine during the time you were working there?
Helena TichauerNo, I lived in barracks.
Ben NachmanIn the concentration camp?
Helena TichauerIn the village camp, you know. But I was there just short time.
Ben NachmanYou did while you were there?
Helena TichauerIn time that I was in Wieliczka, I did underground work in the producing of ammunition.
Ben NachmanWere you working a long day?
Helena TichauerI would say I worked maybe ten hours.
Ben NachmanA day?
Helena TichauerA day.
Ben NachmanDid you work seven days a week?
Helena TichauerEvery single day, seven day a week, yes.
Ben NachmanNo days off?
Helena TichauerNo days off.
Ben NachmanWhat was a typical day like as far as food is concerned?
Helena TichauerThe food was horrible, and we've been under nourish because we didn't have like food at home. We have black coffee, we have slice of bread a day, and maybe soup that was made from flowers and water. This was our nourishment.
Ben NachmanAnd how long were you in this mine?
Helena TichauerMaybe three months, and then I was brought back to the concentration camp Plaszow.
Ben NachmanHow were you treated while you were in the mine?
Helena TichauerI was treated pretty good because I was working hard.
Ben NachmanAnd your job was working with ammunition?
Helena TichauerWith ammunition, yes. The most people, they've been there in the camp, they been working in the ammunition.
Ben NachmanWere your overseers the German soldiers?
Helena TichauerThey been guarding us, and they been watching over us constantly.
Ben NachmanAnd how were you treated by them?
Helena TichauerI wasn't treated very bad because, like I say, I did mine quota what I have to do. We got quota how much we have to produce, and I was treated not bad.
Ben NachmanWhat led up to them sending you back to the concentration camp from this mine?
Helena TichauerMy father had some influence with the upper people that tried to get me back. Not that they send me voluntary, it was my father that tried to do that for me.
Ben NachmanAnd when you returned to the ghetto?
Helena TichauerNo, it was Plaszow concentration camp Plaszow no ghetto.
Ben NachmanTo the concentration camp. Were you reunited then with your family?
Helena TichauerI was reunited just with my mother. My father was in different place because men wasn't together with women.
Ben NachmanAnd your sister was no longer with you at this time?
Helena TichauerMine sister was sent, the first one from the concentration camp to different camp that we lost completely knowledge where she went.
Ben NachmanAnd how long then did your mother and you remain in this concentration camp?
Helena TichauerWe remain in Plaszow till October 1944.
Ben NachmanAnd how were conditions in the concentration camp for you during that period?
Helena TichauerThe condition been horrible. We'd been sleeping on the back back, how you call it, the bunk beds. And very crowded. We didn't have cover, to cover at night. We didn't have pajamas. We wash our clothes and try to dry under our bodies. And it was very bad condition.
Ben NachmanHad food changed much from the time you left the salt mine until you were back at the concentration camp?
Helena TichauerNo, the food didn't change too much, no.
Ben NachmanWas comparable?
Helena TichauerIt was very, yes.
Ben NachmanWhen you were back in the concentration camp, were conditions changing? Were they taking people away during this period?
Helena TichauerThey used to have quotas, especially from the older people. Like every day, so many people had to be delivered to that dead. And my grandmother was with us and happened that she was called to. She came to our barrack and she said bye to us. She took Bible with her and she said the upstairs is calling her. They have to jump to the mass graves with face to the dirt. And they've been shot in the back of their heads.
Ben NachmanDid you actually witness any of this shooting or was this something that you had heard?
Helena TichauerWe heard. You could heard the shooting.
Ben NachmanWas this nearby where your barrack was?
Helena TichauerYes, yes, yes.
Ben NachmanDid the people that were ordered to leave, the older people, did they have an idea where they were going, where they were being led?
Helena TichauerI assume that they know because previous, you know, the previous people had been taken. They know it where they going.
Ben NachmanAnd was the commander still the same during this period of time?
Helena TichauerThe same commander, yes, Commander Goeth.
Ben NachmanWhen you returned from the mine and were in this concentration camp, did you ever again have contact with this commander?
Helena TichauerI saw him, I saw him, yes, but personal contact I didn't have with him.
Ben NachmanHow long did you remain in this concentration camp then?
Helena TichauerI remained in 1944, October 1944.
Ben NachmanAnd then where did you go?
Helena TichauerThen, again, we've been taken to destination, don't know destination. We've been packed on the [unclear] trains, cattle trains, that we didn't know what the what the train was going to take us.
Ben NachmanWere you still with your mother at this time?
Helena TichauerI was with my mother, yes.
Ben NachmanAnd where did you go then?
Helena TichauerWhen we arrive, the sign was saying that we arrive in camp Auschwitz.
Ben NachmanHow long did that trip take, do you remember?
Helena TichauerNo, probably four days.
Ben NachmanCan you describe the conditions in the cars?
Helena TichauerThe condition been horrible. We didn't have restrooms, the people, the necessity, they have to do in the train. And, again, we didn't got any food for four days.
Ben NachmanDid everyone leave the concentration camp of Plaszow on this trip when you went to Auschwitz?
Helena TichauerWhat do you mean of anybody left?
Ben NachmanDid they empty the concentration camp out there?
Helena TichauerNo, no, no.
Ben NachmanThere were still people there?
Helena TichauerStill people there.
Ben NachmanAnd you arrived in Auschwitz, can you describe that for me?
Helena TichauerWe arrived at night, and Auschwitz was guarded by the Nazis, by the German people. We been taken supposedly to showers. But before we went to the shower, people went to selection. The older people went left, the younger people went right. The one that went left, they went to death. And I survive, and I was [unclear] my mother, and she survived with me, the selection.
Ben NachmanAt the selection, did you have any idea what the selection was being done for? Did you know where people were being led to?
Helena TichauerNo, we didn't know, absolute nothing. From there, we been taken to Birkenau by Bergen-Belsen. And this was ready November, and we've been put in cells.
Ben NachmanHow long were you in Auschwitz before you went to Birkenau?
Helena TichauerI was just few days, I'm sorry, I was two weeks in Auschwitz. And because I saw the chambers, and I was fearing of my mother that one day maybe she will be taken from me, I saved lipstick when my clothes was taken and given to me the, you know, (unclear) clothing. I saved the lipstick, and every morning I put on my mother's cheek the lipstick that she looks healthy. And this way I saved my mother. And one day, I said to my mom, you know what? I don't think so that I can stand it to be here. And I saw lane, and I said to mother, how about then we just intrude to the lane, and we're going to leave. And I don't know where this goes, but I don't want to stay here. And this what happened, we went to the lane, and again, we've been packed on the train, animal trains, and that brought us to Bergen-Belsen.
Ben NachmanWhen you were in Auschwitz, that two-week period, what were you doing, any kind of work?
Helena TichauerAgain, I dig I dig ditches, hard work.
Ben NachmanAnd then when you were transferred to Birkenau from Auschwitz, how long did that trip take?
Helena TichauerThe trip from Auschwitz to Birkenau took maybe two days.
Ben NachmanAnd how did you travel?
Helena TichauerBy train, animal train.
Ben NachmanAnd how long were you in Birkenau?
Helena TichauerIn Birkenau. I came in November, and we've been sleeping in tents. And one day, we have terrible storm that destroyed the tents, and we been transferred to barracks where once the military, the German military was living this was living quarter for them. And I was in Birkenau maybe maybe one month, and then I was transferred again to Bergen-Belsen.
Ben NachmanNow, isn't it correct that Birkenau is very nearby Auschwitz?
Helena TichauerYes, it's very nearby Bergen-Belsen.
Ben NachmanAnd then from Birkenau, you went to Bergen-Belsen?
Helena TichauerYes.
Ben NachmanAnd how long did that trip take?
Helena TichauerDidn't took too long, because it's not very far.
Ben NachmanAnd how long were you in Bergen-Belsen?
Helena TichauerI was in Bergen-Belsen till liberation till April 15, 1945.
Ben NachmanAnd you arrived there at what time in Bergen-Belsen?
Helena TichauerI can't recall.
Ben NachmanHow were conditions in Bergen-Belsen when you arrived?
Helena TichauerThe worst condition that was in Auschwitz, in Plaszow. This was the worst condition that I ever experiment.
Ben NachmanDo you think that was because the war was nearing an end?
Helena TichauerI assume this must be.
Ben NachmanWere you given much to eat there?
Helena TichauerAgain, our diet was in morning from the flower soup and water. And then evening, we got like half slice of bread, and this was our food for the whole day. And I discussed with my mother many times, what should I do? Should I eat the bread now, or should I save for the morning? But I ate because I have I was hungry.
Ben NachmanWere you doing work while you were in Bergen-Belsen?
Helena TichauerSure. They wouldn't feed me when I wouldn't work.
Ben NachmanWas the death rate pretty high there at that time?
Helena TichauerVery high, and notjust the death rate was high. People got very sick, typhoid, both kind, the abdominal and the fleck typhoid. And people got dysentery and many different sicknesses.
Ben NachmanHow was your treatment there by the guards?
Helena TichauerBad, very bad.
Ben NachmanCan you compare that with your treatment at Auschwitz and at Plaszow?
Helena TichauerAnd I think it was worse, much worse than in Plaszow.
Ben NachmanDid you have any idea at this time that the war was nearing an end?
Helena TichauerOne day, this was before the liberation, we hear big noises. And because the German know it, that comes to end, many of them escape. They put the white armbands that they are willingly, you know, going to submit themselves to the liberation military. But before they escaped, they came back and took maybe three, four days to the liberation. They poisoned the water. They didn't give us anything to eat. And then one morning, we heard the noises and we thought that the camp is going to be destroyed by the German before we liberated. But thank goodness happened that the English soldier liberate us.
Ben NachmanCan you describe that time for me when you were liberated?
Helena TichauerThe time was, I don't know if we been happy or we been sad. Everybody was crying. And the first thing that came to our minds was if our father is alive, or brother is alive, or sister is alive, and how we're going to search for them. And meantime happened another thing, like met my mother. My mother was very, very sick, she has thrombosis in both leg. Shee went to latrine, you know what latrine is. She fell, and we have to rescue her because otherwise she would drown. And, you know...
Ben NachmanShe had fallen into the latrine?
Helena TichauerYes, yes. And was not very pleasant, even the liberation.
Ben NachmanAt this time were you fed then by the British?
Helena TichauerWe been fed too much, I think so, because afterwards many people got very sick and they died from over eating. Lot of cans, lot of meat, fed food that we been not used to for so many years.
Ben NachmanHow long did you remain in Bergen-Belsen after you were liberated?
Helena TichauerI remain in Bergen-Belsen. We been transferred from Bergen-Belsen to Hamburg, and then I remain till July. And I heard that transport is going to Sweden. And because of my mother that was very sick, I choose to go to Sweden, and this was July 15, 1945.
Ben NachmanWere you able to take your mother to Hamburg? Was this a displaced persons camp in Hamburg?
Helena TichauerThis was this was, I don't know of this, I can call it camp. It wasn't camp because this happened after the liberation.
Ben NachmanWas your mother hospitalized at this time?
Helena TichauerMy mother my mother was for short time hospitalized, but then I chose to go to Sweden where she was in sanatorium there.
Ben NachmanWho took you from Hamburg to Sweden?
Helena TichauerNot just me. It was group of other liberated Jews that went, you know, to Sweden. Probably the Swedish government.
Ben NachmanWere you offered an opportunity to go back to Poland at this time?
Helena TichauerI was offered, but I wouldn't go.
Ben NachmanAnd you were able to go to Sweden, can you describe that for me?
Helena TichauerSweden was wonderful, wonderful country. I owe them a lot, I never forget what they did for us. I was working after the quarantine for weeks. I was working in sanatorium there. And meantime, I got notice through the Red Cross from my sister. But before I got the notice, we search for my family, for father. I wrote to England and I wrote to other places to see of anybody from my nearest family in life. And then I remember that I have uncle.
I did have uncle in Montevideo, Uruguay. And when he emigrate from Germany, he went from Poland to Germany to study, but he didn't stay too long in Germany. He went from Germany, he'd been like intruder on the ship. On the on the he wanted to go to North America, but the ship brought him to South America. And I know that he lives in Montevideo, Uruguay. And I wrote German letter to the police department in Montevideo.
And he was a very well-known person because he spoke eight languages and he was kind of director of hotel, biggest hotel in Uruguay. And they know him very well. And they said to him, you have letter from Europe. And he wrote us back and he sent us right away some money. And he did for us the immigration paper to South America. In meantime, I got notice from my sister that she lives, that she's still alive, and she lives in Munich, and she wrote letter to us.
And she requests that we would come to Germany, but I wrote back and I said, it's impossible because we have ready the paper for the immigration, but I promise, when I come to South America, I'm going to make paper for you, okay? I stay in Sweden one year. In 1946, in July, I emigrated to South America.
Ben NachmanWhat did you do while you were in Sweden?
Helena TichauerI was working in Sanatorium like LPN nurse.
Ben NachmanAnd how did you travel from Hamburg to Sweden?
Helena TichauerWe went to Lübeck. You say Lübeck, but is Lübeck. And from Lübeck, I went to Malmö. And from Malmö, I went to the place where my mother was put to the Sanatorium.
Ben NachmanWho was it that took you to Sweden? Was it the Red Cross?
Helena TichauerI assumed there must be Red Cross.
Ben NachmanAnd how large a group went to Sweden, do you recall that?
Helena TichauerMaybe in my group, because constantly people used to come to Sweden, in my group, maybe we been like 25 people.
Ben NachmanAnd you were with your mother at this time?
Helena TichauerI always with my mother, yes.
Ben NachmanWhen did you learn, or did you ever learn officially what happened to your father, to your brother?
Helena TichauerI was writing to one of our senators that was in England, and I never have respond. And I searched for the names but never came any answer. And I assumed that, you know, he perished. And somebody, I think, told us that two days before the war was over, he was taken to Flossenburg concentration camp. And two days before, he he perished.
Ben NachmanWas he gone from the family a long time after Plaszow?
Helena TichauerHe was he left, I think so. He stayed in Plaszow and we've been sent to Auschwitz. And he said to my mom, when you go with Helena, with me, then you are not going to last too long. My father was very optimistic and he always thought that the war is over tomorrow.
Ben NachmanWhen did you then reunite with your sister?
Helena TichauerI reunite with sister first time when my oldest son, his bar mitzvah in Montevideo. And my sister came to the bar mitzvah of my son in 1961.
Ben NachmanWhen you left Sweden, was it just you and your mother traveled then to Montevideo?
Helena TichauerYes.
Ben NachmanAnd what year was that?
Helena Tichauer1946, July 1946.
Ben NachmanAnd you met your husband to be in Montevideo?
Helena TichauerI came to Montevideo and right away I lived with my aunt and uncle for a short time. But I'm very independent and I didn't want it to be burdened to them. And I decided, and I said to my mother, we have to go on for our self. I look for quarters to live. And I've been involved right away with the German society, Jewish society, and they did help me lot.
And I got my room, and they helped me to found job. And afterwards, you know, I start to socialize. I didn't have too much, I didn't have clothes. What I have was just one dress and one skirt and one blouse, and this was enough for me. But because of the society, I start to socialize. And then one day, I found job that I was taking care of a boy that was maybe two years old.
And this, there's been immigrants from, he was from Romania. And his wife was French lady, Jewish lady, very religious people, and the name was Gottlieb. He was in oil business. And one day, he has visit from Argentina. And the visit, the family that came, they went from Poland Krakow. And the lady said to him, you know what? I think so that I know the parents, my parents, my father and my mother.
They've been very good friends with my parents. And she said to him, from what kind home I came. Okay, next day, he said to me, Fraulein Schulkind, look for some location, maybe you going to open store. I say, what kind store, I don't have money for it. And I didn't look for any location, but he did it. And one day, he said, okay, I bought for you delicatessen store. And you can move in the same location as quarters to live.
And you can let your mom, you know, have the store. And this was blessing. I was very embarrassed because I'm very proud person. And I tried to pay him back afterwards. In meantime, I met my husband by friends. And this was in August 25, 1947.
Ben NachmanWas your husband also a survivor?
Helena TichauerMy husband was survive. He came before the war started to Montevideo. He came in November 14 of December 1938. But he was one week in concentration camp Buchenwald. In Kristallnacht, he was taken to the concentration camp. The parents tried to, they started to make paper for immigration before he was taken to the camp. And luckily, the paper came after one week, and he was released from the camp.
Ben NachmanWhat city did he live in prior to the war?
Helena TichauerIn Gliwice.
Ben NachmanGliwice. That was part of Germany then?
Helena TichauerYes. There was upper Silesia.
Ben NachmanReel three interview with Mrs. Tichauer. You were saying that you had this little delicatessen in Uruguay. How well did you do there?
Helena TichauerI didn't do very well, I tell you why, because the delicatessen store was in Jewish neighborhood. We didn't have the equipment, like fridgerators, we have just ice box. And then we didn't know Spanish, we mostly spoke German or Polish. Then the Jewish people came and they would say, (unclear). Because I spoke Polish. Then I spoke German, they would say, okay, the Germans should grow what they had in the dirt, just like onions. And I didn't have any other choice, I learned, you know, Spanish and I have to learn Jewish. I didn't spoke Jewish either.
Ben NachmanWere you successful at all in this store?
Helena TichauerWe survive, we survive. I wasn't successful, but we survive. But thank goodness that I met good man, and after a month that we know each other, I got engaged. And after three months, I got married. My husband's occupation was glazier. And one day when he went to work, I decide just to close my delicatessen store, clean up, sell out, and leave the store with four walls that he can put his own business. And this what I did, have lot of guts.
Ben NachmanAnd he put his business into the store?
Helena TichauerYes, the business in the store, yes.
Ben NachmanAnd was he successful with the business?
Helena TichauerOh, yeah, he was successful. He was very hard worker. He was artist in his job and his work.
Ben NachmanNow what year did you arrive in Uruguay?
Helena TichauerI arrived in 1946.
Ben NachmanAnd you were married in what year?
Helena Tichauer1947, 13th of December, 1947.
Ben NachmanAnd how long did you remain in Uruguay?
Helena TichauerI remained in Uruguay till 1963, June 1963.
Ben NachmanDid you have a family by this time?
Helena TichauerI have two boys, yes. Two boys that were born there, yes.
Ben NachmanAnd what prompted you to move to the United States?
Helena TichauerBecause I went through so much, and the political situation after Fidel Castro took over Cuba changed so much in the whole South American continent that I was fearing a future of my children's. I live my life, and I said I would like something better for my children's. And this way, we decide to come to United States. Even so, my sister always was writing come to United States, but my husband never wanted to leave South America. And South America was called once, Swiss from the, Uruguay was called, Swiss from the South America.
Ben NachmanWere you sponsored by someone to come to this country, or how did you manage?
Helena TichauerI didn't have to be sponsored because I pay my own fare, and we have to present our bank book, what we what we have, and the paper that we got, what that we obtained just in three months.
Ben NachmanAnd your sister was living in Omaha, Nebraska at this time?
Helena TichauerYes, my sister was living here.
Ben NachmanIs that the reason you chose to come to Omaha?
Helena TichauerThis what I choose to come, even so that my decision, okay our decision was to go to Israel, and we have lined up even place where we want to go. We want to, was Tiv'on, I think so, and my husband would be able to work in his profession. But my sister insist, come first to United States, you don't like it, you always can go back to Israel, but nobody goes back. Once we came here, we stayed here, and I love it.
Ben NachmanAnd you were able to raise your two sons in this country?
Helena TichauerI been I raised my two kids in this country that I'm very proud of them. And they are good kids, very hard hard worker. They have wonderful family and childrens.
Ben NachmanHow many grandchildren do you have?
Helena TichauerI have five grandchildrens. The oldest is going to be 21 in March. My youngest son, girl, is 20. Then comes other girl from an oldest son, she's going to be 18. And then come middle daughter from my youngest son that is 17. And my youngest grandchild is 14 years old, and he's going to become eagle next week, boy scout eagle next week.
Ben NachmanThat's very nice. And your husband passed away when?
Helena TichauerMy husband pass away in 1992, 10 of January.
Ben NachmanAnd what kind of work did he do in this country?
Helena TichauerHe did not in his profession, but because when we came here, he was senior to me by 15 and a half years, and he couldn't get job in his profession because of union. He had to work for Maury Udes and builder supply, and he was very unhappy, very unhappy.
Ben NachmanHave you ever had an opportunity to return to Europe?
Helena TichauerYes, I was few times in Europe.
Ben NachmanNot to Poland, though?
Helena TichauerNo, I wouldn't go to Poland. Doesn't tie me anything. I don't have anybody there.
Ben NachmanDid you happen to visit Bergen-Belsen when you returned?
Helena TichauerNo, I never visit Bergen-Belsen.
Ben NachmanNow that all these years have passed and the happiness with a family and grandchildren, do you have a message that you would like to leave?
Helena TichauerI have message, and I hope. You know, I am very angry, very bitter, even there are not Jewish what is happening in Yugoslavia and Bosnia and whatever, because I thought that Holocaust is not going to happen again, and it's happening, and that's what makes me very, very sad when you when I watch the television and I see the childrens gunned and parents and all the people.
Ben NachmanIt brings back a lot of memories, doesn't it?
Helena TichauerMemories, and and I don't think it's human. And I tell you just one thing I thinks of, and we would have help in the time that I went to Holocaust early, that probably we could save more people. That the six million plus wouldn't perish, because not just Jew perish, but non Jews the same way.
Ben NachmanI would like to thank you for allowing us into your home to tape this interview.
Helena TichauerAnd I am just sad that the history repeats and people are forgetting.
Ben NachmanThank you very much, Mrs. Tichauer.
Helena TichauerAnd I am glad that you could interview me, and I hope that this going to be left for the younger generation that don't know what is what happened, and they would learn not from this interview, not just me, but whatever work you do.
Ben NachmanThank you.
Helena TichauerAnd I appreciate this, too. Thank you.
Ben NachmanMrs. Tichauer, can you tell me about this photograph?
Helena TichauerThis photograph is my family picture that been taken in Ghetto Plaszow in 1940s. This is my father that perished, my mother that passed away here in Omaha, 1967. My brother then perished before we even went to concentration camp. He was 13 and a half years old. My sister, Lola, that lives here in Omaha, and she's two and a half year younger than me and myself.
Ben NachmanMrs. Tichauer, can you describe this photograph for me?
Helena TichauerThis picture is my wedding picture. I wed in 1947, 13th of December.
Ben NachmanAnd where was this taken?
Helena TichauerIn Montevideo, Uruguay, South America.
Ben NachmanCan you tell me who's in this photograph?
Helena TichauerThis picture was taken ten years ago, approximately. And I have in this picture my husband that I lost four years ago, my two sons, my oldest son, Carl, my youngest son, Fred, Carl's wife, Gail, Cory, son, that is going to be 21 years old, Jamie, that is going to be 18 years old in June, and then Fred, family. Marty's his wife, my daughter-in-law. Kelly, that was 20 years old in November. Randy, that was 17 years old in December, and Ryan, that was 14 years in November.
Ben NachmanMrs. Tichauer, can you tell me what this is?
Helena TichauerThis is lighthouse that I chose after I had my head surgery in 1974. I chose to have some hobbies because I was a convalescent at home for one year, and I didn't know what to do with my life, and I start to paint.
Ben NachmanAnd this is a painting of a lighthouse?
Helena TichauerLighthouse, yes.
Ben NachmanCan you describe this painting for me?
Helena TichauerThis painting was taken in Canada, in Winnipeg Beach. It's Marina from Winnipeg.
Ben NachmanAnd when did you paint this?
Helena TichauerThe year is there, I don't know, I don't remember. I just put the year on the picture.
Ben NachmanMrs. Tichauer can you introduce this young man for us?
Helena TichauerThis young man is my youngest son named Fred. I am very proud of him and my oldest son that couldn't be here with us. He has college education, he's a very fine man. He has a very responsible job, and I'm really, really proud of both of my kids.
Ben NachmanFred, having grown up being the child of a survivor, do you have anything you'd like to add to this interview?
Fred TichauerWell, I tell you, the challenges I face every day, it's hard for me to imagine what they went through, and I think all of us need to reflect on the terrible, terrible tragedies that happened, and I feel that I have a lot of responsibility because of what my parents went through. I know that they've been a real inspiration to me. When you talk about surviving, there's nothing that compares to what they went through, and that's definitely a challenge for me to be able to live up to and do the best I can to be responsible and hopefully share in what I have to share with young people today, to let them know that today their problems are nothing compared to what survivors what went through in World War II.
Ben NachmanThank you very much, Fred. Thank you, Mrs. Tichauer.
Helena TichauerYou're very welcome, and I am very proud that you could come. That's the reason I get offered.