Joseph H. Riha Library of Congress Testimony

Hello, we are here with Joe Riha. It is Monday, August 10th, 2009, and my name is Beth Seldin-Dotan. And I'm very, very glad to be here with you today. If you could state your name and spell it, please.

Okay, my name is Joe 'Pat' Riha, and Pat's the nickname, and I'm 91 years old. What else do you need?

Tell me the date when you were born.

June 6th, 1918.

All right. And I think I forgot to mention we're in Omaha, Nebraska today.

Yes.

And if you could tell me about where you lived before the service and how you ended up being in the service, in World War II.

I lived two blocks away from here, straight over. And I was drafted. On May 15th, I was drafted. And on May 18th, I went into the service. And May 18th is a date that my grandmother got married on that date. And then someone else in the family got married on that date. Same date, May 18th, so it's kind of a big day, you know. On May 20th, I went down to Offutt air base to be inducted into the service. I was drafted.

Great. What did you do before the service?

I worked for the National Park Service.

And what was your job?

I ended up being a regional purchasing agent for them. We had a . . . It was the Midwest region - known as the Midwest region. And we had: Tetons, Yellowstone... In the Midwest, the whole Midwest region is what it was, South Dakota, North Dakota, Nebraska, Iowa, Kansas, and all those. And while working there, I approved the payments and all the bills on the new Arch at St. Louis. And I had 39 years and nine months with the service, the National Park Service. The only job I had, to be honest. When I got out of high school, I went to Van Sant Business School. And then I didn't even take a civil service test. I got drafted. Not drafted, but I was playing softball against the team. And one of the bosses asked me what I do for a living and I told him. . . take shorthands, and so he hired me as a stenographer.

So how old were you when you were drafted to the Army?

26, I think. I think it was 26, I'm not sure.

Well, if you could tell us a little bit about what unit you were drafted to, and the process when you went in, and where you were sent in the beginning.

When I was drafted, I went down to what was Fort Crook. And then from there, I got sent to Jefferson Barracks.

Can you tell me the states as well?

Jefferson Barracks was at St. Louis, Missouri, just outside of St. Louis, Missouri. And I ended up there for almost two and a half years. And don't ask me what I did. I worked in the grocery store. They had a commissary, and part-time here in Omaha, when I was working, I worked in the grocery store. I don't know. My boss here in Omaha was an officer down there at St. Louis, and he met me. And he told me he was going to get me to stay at the place, and so I ended up staying there more than two years, working in the grocery store, if you will.

And then what happened after that?

Well, then June 6th, I think it was June 6th.

Which year?

I think it was 44. I'm not... Yeah, 44. I think it was 44. And we got all of us that were in the Air Force got drafted into the infantry. And we were sent to Texas for two weeks of training, and then from two weeks after that, we were sent overseas. And I spent one day on the front lines, and then I got called back, and they were going to make me a civilian, so they said. And I said, no, no, no. Because I had enough points to come home. And they said, no, you've got to stay here. You're classified as a stenographer in civilian life. And so that's how I got into the war crimes team. I was drafted that way while I was overseas. Like I say on the front lines only two days, but that was it.

Tell me, let's back up a little bit. If you could tell me about what you knew about what was going on while you were stateside. And what kind of training you were having with the Air Force, you said?

Yes. Well, in the Air Force, like I say, I spent 30 days just turning out of my left foot from the right foot. You know, we make right turn, left turns. And then you spent 30 days at basic training. And then they assigned job from there. And that's how my boss here saw me in St. Louis. And he said, well, we'll get you on the staff down there. And that's how that happened.

So what unit was this under?

All I ever referred to was Jefferson Barracks.

Uh, huh.

Yeah. It was part of the Air Force. Most of the people there at Jefferson Barracks went into the Air Force like gunnery school or pilot school, pilot training. You know. It was just a basic training center. And you had to use your left and right foot. I mean, that's what it amounted to.

All right. Well, we'll go back to 1944 when you were sent overseas.

Uh, huh.

Where was it that you were sent exactly before they sent you to the front line?

Well, we landed in Paris. And we stayed overnight. And then the next day, I was in Germany now. I don't know exactly in Germany where it was. But that that's I didn't spend too much time in France. I know that. It was a couple of days. And then they assigned us to units out in Germany.

How did you travel there?

Jeep.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

They took us - always on a Jeep. They had it hauled us around.

Yeah. All right. Well, let's talk then more about your service as a stenographer once they put you in that unit. Why don't you tell me about that?

Uh, huh. Well, basically, I mean, that working at the grocery store, I just never did like that. I mean, I figured, you know, I'm a soldier, not a grocery clerk. But then I went overseas. And then right after the war ended, I went to Dachau. And we lived in Munich and commuted back and forth from Munich. Because they wouldn't let us stay there. I mean, and we had to change clothes every day. I mean, we got new uniforms every day because of the stench and that that was down at the camp at Dachau camp, if you will.

All right. So tell me in May 1945 or April 1945, where were you located and what was the unit at the end of April?

It was the war crimes investigating team.

Okay.

And we started in Munich and then just moved around. But I think it was 29 days. I want to say 29 days that we stayed at Munich and commuted to Dachau every day.

Okay.

For to investigate former officers and some of the inmates that were in the camp.

All right. I'm going to ask you some questions because I think that this is a really important piece of history that I've certainly never heard from this point of view. And so if you can tell me what you remember from those 29 days, what your impressions were and if it's too difficult that you don't have to share with me. But the first time you walked in there, if you remember the date exactly when you went to see Dachau the first time?

That I can't remember, but I thought it was April. I'm not sure. But when we come in there, we were warned that these people, prisoners, if you will, they might attack you. So we just grabbed our bags and we threw them. And we went upstairs into school where we were interviewing or taking testimony from these people that were inmates. And we stayed there 29 days just back and forth. Then we'd go out and get inmates. There was an interpreter with us and then there was two or three investigating officers. And I was one of the, I was, I call myself a stenographer, I mean, you know. And I worked with Colonel Chavez. And we interviewed people. I mean, some of these inmates would tell us who people were. And they were still in a camp that were kind of mistreating them, if you will.

Can you tell me a little bit more about the Colonel?

Well, he, as I recall, I thought he was a judge advocate in the state of Texas. I'm not sure. Dave Chavez was his name. I just, he was real good, though, I mean.

And he was the person interrogating the people and questioning them.

He was the boss. He was a colonel, yes. And then we had an interpreter. And then there was two of us that were stenographers. And then we had a jeep driver, if you will. That was our team.

Um, hum. What do you remember about the people who were with the Nazis? These were people that you interviewed as well, I understand.

We, we interviewed, I think we had, I think we had two officers that were still in the camp that were caught at the camp. And we interviewed those. The other officers that later on were condemned, I mean, we never interviewed those. We took testimony mostly from the inmates or the captives. I don't know what you'd rather call them, but they were people that were in there for some reason. The Germans threw them in the camp, so . . . so.

Are you able to recall some of the discussion, the things that they gave testimony, or do you feel uncomfortable sharing that?

Well, there was things that were done. I mean, for example, they had a building, and they called it the shower room. And it had seven shower heads. Well, they'd take these people in there. Then the people thought they were going to get a shower. Instead, gas would come and kill them. That's how the Nazis treated the people, I mean, you know. Then one time we had to go out and get an inmate, and he was walking back with me and something hit my heel, and I just kind of turned around, and he dropped dead. It was you know things like that, I mean, yeah.

What was the process? I'm repeating myself a little bit, but I'm just trying to get an understanding of what it was like for the American troops to be there at that time. What was the process of helping the people after the liberation?

Well, there was another Army group there. I don't know what they were doing, but they were trying to get rid of the people out of the camp. I mean, wherever they lived, they tried to make arrangements to move them out of the camp so that the camp could be closed. But I don't know if it's a marker down there now or not. I think it is. I think it's set aside. I think the German set it aside is a place to see, I guess you want to call it that. But I'm not sure about that. Once I got out of there, I was gone. I mean, I didn't think about it too much.

Can you tell me any more about these interviews of the people who were there? I know, again, that these are recollections that are hard to think back upon.

Well, they all just about were the same, you know. We tried to get different stories and things like that. But one thing that I'll remember for a long time was that there was one lady that was in there, and she was a German. And I don't know what she was doing in the camp. I have no idea why she was in the camp. But so we started interviewing her, wanting to know what she was doing. But she told us that she worked for the German Army, and she was in England, and she stood on the corner and would tell the Air Force where the different buildings were. And then they would go, the Germans would go and bomb it. How she got in our camp or that, I don't know. But we had a chance just to interview her. And we were talking to her through our interpreter, figuring that she was German, you know. And finally, the colonel asked her a question. It was a strange question, asked her a question. And she gave him an answer, and he says to the interpreter, she's a damn liar. And she said, I'm no liar. She'd come right back at me, I'm no liar. The colonel says to the interpreter, get out. And we went on with the interview. And they arrested her, and I don't know, whatever happened to the lady or anything like that. But I mean, it was a strange deal. I mean, she said she's no liar and spoke in English, you know. So the colonel got rid of our interpreter because he wasn't all that good. But . . . [unclear] We didn't interview too many of the inmates, I mean, you know, because it was the same story. Some would tell you how they persecuted the women, if you will. I mean, that were in there and, well, you saw the pictures where they stacked the bodies outside, loaded them up with boxcars and set them out, and things like that, I mean.

During that time that you were interviewing people, were they trying to clear out and help people?

Yes, uh-huh, yeah yeah yeah. Our military was there making arrangements, You know, like I say, that was another group. I didn't come in contact with them at all. We just had our own cubicle, if you will, and went from there. I understand that Eisenhower was there in April as well.

Were you there at the same time at any point?

No, no, no, no. We come in right behind him. He was there, and we come in with our team right behind him. He had left when we arrived.

How do you feel that the work that you did was beneficial or influential in the trials later on?

Well, I figured to turn about fair play. I mean, if you're going to kill somebody, you better be ready to get killed by yourself. I mean, I had no use for the German people at all down there. I mean, I just had a hard feeling for them. I don't know why, but I did, because there were some Bohemian people, if you will, were killed. I mean, you know, Czech people, if you will. And I figured that's unfair to treat people like that. I mean, it's just one of those things, you know.

Tell us about the books that you had. How many books that you...

Twenty-nine steno notebooks. While I was overseas, yeah.

And what happened to those?

That I don't know. I wanted the books, but they said no. They took them, and what they ever did with them, I don't know if they put them someplace, or they burned them or what. I never did get them back.

Do you remember who it was who took them, particularly?

No, I don't have any idea. I don't have any idea, huh-uh. No. No. I know we transcribed them, and the colonel would say, don't throw the book away. You know, keep the books. We ended up having another court reporter, if you will. That's what they kind of called us court reporters. We had two of us on the team, and there was three officers besides the colonel interviewed, you know, people that was in the camp.

Was there anyone that you developed a relationship with in that team, or any of the people that you interviewed that you kept in touch with?

No, it was just our one team, and we all lived, you know. There was two captains, and I remember one captain, Walker, and the other captain, I can't think of his name for love or high water, and then there was a sergeant, staff sergeant down at St. Louis. That I . . . Once in a while, when I was traveling to St. Louis, I'd meet up with him, but other than that, you know, like I said, we just were one unit now, by ourselves.

And what happened after the 29 days that you were in Dachau - or interviewing?

Well, then we went back to Karlsruhe, Germany, and we would get a... We mostly were working atrocities against the Air Force people, our Air Force people, and if someone found a case in another city, we'd go over to that city and interview the people over there that were charged with the atrocity of killing the Air Force person. We did that.

How long did you stay in the service then?

I got out, I think in May of 1946. I think lacking four months of four years, I was in the service.

And what were you doing until 1946? You were in Germany the whole time?

Yes, uh-huh, yes, uh-huh, yeah.

What other places did you interview in, and do you remember?

Well, no, not really. I mean, it was, like you said, we headquartered in Munich, and then we would go from Munich. It would be like from Omaha to Offutt air base. I mean, you know, we wouldn't go too far away from Munich. We stayed in that area. Whenever they would find someone that was a killer, if you will, that killed an Air Force person like. Then we would go interview him, and then charges were filed against him by somebody else, I don't know, whoever handled that end of it, I mean, we never did know, I don't think. We never did find out whatever happened to some of those people that we took testimony from.

And what happened when you came back stateside?

I got married.

Who did you marry?

There was some lady by the name of Helen.

Helen, and what was her maiden name?

Janousek.

Janousek, could you spell that for me?

J-A-N-O-U-S-E-K.

And where was Helen from?

Omaha. She's from Omaha, yeah.

All right, and what did you do once you settled back in the states?

I went back to work with the National Park Service. I got married, when did I get married? May 18th. May 18th, the same day. Yeah, grandma... when I got drafted into the service, and then we got married on that day, May 18th. Yeah so . . .

And how long did you work with the Park Service?

Lacking four months and 40 years.

Great. And can you tell us about your family? You were married to Helen, and who are your children?

I have five children, Pepper, Patty, Tommy, Terry, and Buddy. That's all their nicknames.

Okay, can you give me their regular names, too?

Joseph, Patty, Tommy, Terry, Bernadette.

Great. And does everyone live in Omaha now?

Bernadette lives in Nebraska City. And then the others, they live in Ralston. Joe lives in Ralston. Well, I don't know if it's Omaha or not. Yeah, they live in Ralston.

Great.

Yeah, and Buddy lives in Nebraska City. And Tommy lives in Phoenix, Arizona.

Very good.

I've got 'em all accounted for now.

Tell me if you have any other things that you feel are important to talk about your time during the service, during the war? Any other stories? I am going to talk to you a little bit about your album and have you tell me about some of those photos in a minute. But is there anything that you want to say that you feel is very, very important about that time?

Well, not really. I mean, you know, I just figured you're drafted, you're in the service, you've got to serve it and do what they want you to do and you go home because I didn't want to make a career in the military. That was it because I already had my career going. I was working for the government. I figured I might as well stay with it, you know. So other than that, no, not really.

Okay, and did you serve in any other wars after that?

No. No, no, no, no. One was enough.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, I would agree that one is one too many. All right. Let's, oh, if you could explain to us what we have here in front of us?

That's my, all my military information. When I drafted and when I got out, so forth.

Oh, okay. So March 13, 1946 was your release date. And then tell us about the picture here, if you could. Who is that?

That's me at Jefferson Barracks.

Good. All right. And if you could tell us about this album, and we'll show a couple of photos and have you explain.

Well, this was a scrapbook that I started to make in the service. Some of the pictures in there I took and other pictures I got from the other teams that were around there taking pictures and sending them to me.

What kind of camera did you have with you?

Just a regular camera, little, one of those cheapies. Yeah, and there's an article in there, something about Dachau. I just picked up newspapers and stuff like that. And here's the...

Can you explain the visitor's pass, why you had to have that and and ...

Well, that's that's the only way we could get in when we come down from, when we were staying in Munich. We had to have a gate pass. They wouldn't let anyone in unless they had a gate pass and a reason for being there.

So you collected the articles, or did your wife collect those?

No, I collected those. These are most of the Army paper. We'd get them, you know, at our offices. And whenever there's an article in there about Dachau or a summary, maybe from World Herald, where I had articles in there, I'd just collect them out and put them in this scrapbook.

Did you see the death train, or had it already been taken away before you arrived?

No, no, the death train was still there. I mean, yeah . . .The bodies that you see in here, they were stacked outside the train. Those are some of the... I know 40, I thought there was more than that. Got the death sentence, but Bill's number 40, I don't know why that is. I thought there was 60 on trial at the time, but I guess not. I guess there was only 40. 60 didn't get in the picture, I guess.

Did you . . . When these people were being interviewed, did they have any remorse, or were they just matter of fact in their...

No, they they just felt that they were doing the right thing. They weren't.

Did you want to tell us anything about these pages?

Well, some of these, I had taken by myself, but then there's others in there that were... The team took them, and I didn't take them, but then I just put footnotes about each one of them. That's the way it appeared when I was at the camp, if you will.

How did you say you got my name?

From Grace at the... Aaron Grace at the Omaha World Herald. I think... I don't know if you had called her, or after the dinner with the Heartland Honor Flights, there was a big article about the Honor Flight and the survivors who met liberators, and Aaron somehow contacted me that you had been in Dachau, so I'll have to look back and see what that email said.

If I did it, I don't recall doing it. But I never made those trips to back to Washington.

You mentioned that you had to change clothes every time you went in.

Yes, yes.

Can you tell us about that?

Well, I mean, it smelled. I mean, it was richer clothes, and they didn't want us to carry out any diseases or anything, you know, so we'd get a clean uniform, go back to Munich, and then go back the next day with it. When we get ready to go back to Munich, we change clothes right there, leave the uniforms there, and back to Munich we go. It's from Dachau, yeah? That smelled a little bit.

How were you able to deal with it emotionally, day after day, during that time?

Well, the first, the first week was a little bit tough. I mean, it was hard, but after that, you got used to it. You just figured, well, you're doing your job, and that was it. I mean, you just... it could get to you. I mean, you know, listen to some of these people tell you, things that went on, you know. They didn't realize that human beings could do that. I mean, it was kind of surprising, but like that gas chamber, I mean, that shocked me. I couldn't believe it. I mean, I thought it was a shower when I walked into it, and here the shower heads were hooked to gas, let 'em go. And they just put the people in there, and... and they would stack them outside. I don't know where they hauled the bodies to or whatever. If they had an open cemetery, if you will, or... I don't know. I didn't... I just never paid that much attention to it. I believe there was a crematorium at Dachau. Maybe there was. I mean, you know, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. Because it was still full when we left there. I mean, there were a lot of people there that haven't been sent back to their own country or own homes, you know. Yeah, I mean, see, here now, that's the picture. I got back from one of the schools or something. They took some of the pictures out of there, I think, so...

Can you talk about this train?

Yeah, they'd bring these bodies down from some of the other outlying camps. They had other camps there, I mean, you know. They'd load them in these boxcars and haul them there, and they... Did you say there was a crematorium there, and there is? Well, then that's what they were doing. They were taking them up to that place, I mean. Like I said, we didn't get involved in that at all. I mean, we had enough to do what we were doing.

So, this is a picture of the crematorium?

Yeah. Well, yeah, I guess we did go down there. Well, that's one of the teams took down there, you know. We got pictures, all of us that worked down there at the camp, the GIs, our GIs, what, they shared. We all shared everything together, I mean, you know.

So, I see in your commentary you say 'This is a shower room, what a joke.'

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Let's just do two more.

I might have you pause.

Page.

What happened?

I didn't press record.

Okay, I'm going to ask it again. Ready?

Go ahead.

You okay?

All right, my last question is, if you have anything important that you would like to say to your family, to your grandchildren, or to those of us who need to learn from what happened during this time?

Well, I'll say this. I mean, I just hope they don't have to do what I did, don't have the same experiences, if you will. It's a . . . Sometimes I don't sleep. I go back there, you know, and kind of fight it off a little bit. I mean, it works on you. You read something about it, and then it'll make you go back and figure you're sitting there taking dictation again, you know, or whatever. But other than that, no, I just, there's nothing wrong with the military, but I mean, it's a job that I could just never handle. I could never stay in the military. I just, one of those things. I wasn't cut out for military, if you will. I mean, Pepper was in the service, and Tommy didn't get drafted. Tommy didn't get drafted, no. But Pepper was in the service. He was great. Other than that, well, it's one of those things. Something you had to do, it happened, and you had to serve. That was it. I did my duties. And I figured that's it. So I had a good life. I mean, so... almost made 50 years of wedding life. Marriage life, if you will. It's one of those things. I appreciate you coming down. I really do. I mean, I'm surprised to even sitting here with you. May I have a copy of this, or will I get a copy of it, or whatever I mean?

Absolutely. And we're very honored to have the time with you.

I appreciate it.

And it's such an important history to be able to record.

I appreciate that.

Thank you.

Yeah, you betcha.That's right.

Go. Should I call you Pep or Joe?

Pep.

Pep, could you introduce everybody who's in the picture?

Peppers is on the left. Terry's right here by me. This is Darcy, granddaughter, and Michelle is Pepper's wife.

Great. And how many grandchildren do you have altogether?

Nineteen grandchildren and eight great-grandchildren.

Oh, my goodness. That's fabulous.