Jerome Grossman Library of Congress Testimony

This is Monday, October 3rd, 2005. My name is Sandy Nogg. I'll be interviewing Mr. Jerome Grossman for the Veterans History Project. And we're at the Jewish Community Center in Omaha, Nebraska.

What did you do before you joined the service?

Which group?

The real service, not ROTC or anything in high school, but...

In the Army?

Yes.

Well, of course, that was in 1943. I was in basically just finishing ROTC at Creighton University. And I was brought in, however, it happened to [be hay fever] season, so I was returned. And at that time, I was sent back home, and they, roughly seven or eight months later, I was brought in again. And at that time, they retained me, shall we say. And I went down to Fort Leavenworth to be sworn in.

Josh, I believe I was sworn in Iowa, however, I came down there first stop. From then on, I was scheduled to go to someplace in Illinois to be an interpreter. However, there was a large movement to go to Europe, which turned out to be for the landing for the Normandy beach head, basically. And at that time, I was sent down to Abilene in Texas. Excuse me for one moment. It was right outside of Abilene. And from there, we went to [unclear] New York and went to Europe. We landed in England, where the rest of the 12th Armored Division brought in its tanks, heavy equipment, and roughly in about, I would say, October. From 1944, we landed at France, Le Havre. We brought in the heavy equipment supporting the landing on the Normandy beach head, from which the French government has given me a certificate. And then on, we went down, basically, straight through Europe from that all the way down to the Southern point. With a number of various items, including the Colmar battle, which was one of the major battles of the war, and basically anything else you might want to know, I'll try to answer.

So you were considered enlisted or drafted because you went through ROTC?

I was enlisted at that time.

You were enlisted?

I was enlisted at that point.

What were your first days in the service like? Do you remember?

Originally, not too bad. However, when we were moved into by train down to Texas, in Abilene, I was a little nervous as to where we might be going. And at that time, I got into the 12th armored, the tanks, which were the Combat Command B headquarters. It wasn't too bad. I seemed to get along pretty well with the fellows there. It was a good unit. And at that point, it was heading for New York. From New York, as I stated, we went into England and down through Europe. As far as my feelings in it, I got along quite well. And continued after the war as various command headquarters, even though I wasn't at that time an officer. I was a enlisted man. But I was sent to various schools from that headquarters and ended up permanently with the headquarters. What were your dates of service? Dates of service, of course, there was a slight hiatus. Of course, I was in the ROTC. Then I got into the regular . . . I then stayed with that through, of course, the World War II campaign.

And roughly in June, July of 1946, I came back to the States. I then, at that point, was out for roughly maybe nine, eight, nine months, maybe, I suggest, about that time. Going to Creighton University, obtained a BSC, Bachelor of Science in Commerce, at that time to a doctorate of jurisprudence. And then, after I came out of that, after a couple of offers, I accepted a commission as a First Lieutenant in the Judge Advocate General Corps, which is a military legal branch. And shortly thereafter, I took a master's degree course in New York University for a master's degree in tax law. But then continued with my actions as a JAG officer, which continued and continued until I got out roughly the tail end of 1970 in that area. And retired as a full colonel in the JAG. A number of other things in the middle, but it depends on what they say.

So you weren't in the service when the attack on Pearl Harbor occurred?

No.

Where were you? Do you know where you were?

I would say at that time, I was in Omaha, probably attending Creighton University. And where were you when the war ended? When the war ended, which would be roughly, if I remember correctly be around, of course, we ended it, basically, as far as we were, would be in shortly after the Normandy. Well, not in the Normandy landing. It would be roughly, I keep thinking March, April 1945. But I was somewhere in that area. I went to Bérus University.

I went to Bérus University. They allowed us to go there when we were not really doing much of anything. And I was there for one semester and then maintained by the Bérus University as an art department assistant professor. And I went to a military unit, military police, outside of Stuttgart, shortly thereafter I was sent home. My points were such that I was [already contributed].

What was your job assignment when you were in the service?

Basically, I was in headquarters, Combat Command B, in the 12th Armored. I was working with the business center, and that, I was also doing guard duty. I was doing other stuff regarding the guarding doors, riding in tanks, riding in half tracks. When we went across the Danube, I was a gunner is a half track with a machine gun.

So did you see combat, actually?

I presume when they were shooting at us, and we were shooting back at them, that would be combat.

That was combat.

That was mainly in tank and half tracks. I didn't do much in the way of infantry. Because I was in Combat Command B, or Combat Command Headquarters.

Were you injured?

I should always say at one point, my hand was injured, however I never even reported it, except saying here it has bandaged it up, and I never requested anything. So there's no general record of it, except God knows where in the records of the Army. I never asked for a Purple Heart, never got one.

Were you ever a prisoner of war?

No, not in any way.

Were there many casualties in your unit?

As part of Combat Command B, which one must understand it, as a headquarter for a number of units, there was quite the number. In one case it was 1,500 killed in one unit, at one time.

Were you ever fearful?

Anybody that is not fearful, with shells going over their head, and you're dancing in the ground, and you're shooting at the enemy, and the enemy is shooting you. When planes are shooting at you, and you're trying to shoot back at them, I would presume you're a little nervous.

I had a man tell me today he never was fearful.

Well, if you're not fearful when this happens, I would say that you're not in the best mental attitude. Anytime you've got shells going over your head, you're a wee bit fearful.

Tell me about the food and provisions that you had.

Well, the food was not bad at all. They had a regular group of, the kitchen got out there, and they had their role of something, going on, something. Anyway, the, I don't know, what could I answer that? We were talking about the food as well?

You were fed and it was okay?

Fed and was okay. I can't complain about it.

Okay. How did you pass any downtime? Did you have periods of downtime, or did you really feel like you didn't?

There wasn't too much we could do any of it.

And how did you keep in touch with people at home?

Write them letters. We received letters. There didn't seem to be any stop in doing that.

Okay. And how long did it take letters to reach it you, on the outside thing?

It wasn't too bad if my memory serves me correct. I don't know the exact dates or times, but whenever they got through. And sometimes it was very good. Sometimes if we were out in the field someplace, it wasn't the best.

Did you have time for recreation, at all?

I suppose it depends on which recreation is. After the war, yes. During the middle of the battles no.

Okay. Were you able to celebrate Jewish holidays?

Not much.

Were you able to practice Judaism during your service?

I would say generally no.

Did you take any ceremonial objects with you, a [unclear] or kippah?

No. When you were moving with it, consistently, which we were, you were lucky you had your clothes, you had a weapon, and this type of thing.

The rest was extraneous.

Yeah, this was definitely extraneous.

Did you have any conflicts during your service period because you were Jewish?

Really, I would say generally no. I had no trouble at all with anybody at all, with anybody. They accepted me, I accepted them.

Did the tenure change after, obviously, your unit was near the camp, after people saw what had gone on? Did people react indifferently towards you knowing you were Jewish?

I would say basically I never did have any trouble, period. I don't think anybody ever looked at me in any way being Jewish. The commanding officer as a combat command was extremely nice. He always depended on me to do a lot of things. I was a fairly low rank, and at that time there was a full colonel ahead of our unit, our headquarters. However, I got along extremely well, and my head got along extremely well with everybody in there. And if somebody attempted to disagree with me and the colonel was around there, they did that once.

Did you ever doubt your religion during this period? Were you actively religious before you were in the service?

Actively going to Temple and that type of thing?

Did you go to services with some regularity?

Yes. To a certain degree, I would say yes. That's while I was in Omaha. But services in our unit was consistently traveled, and always on the travel, in the tanks, etc., as I told you. We didn't stop very much to do much anywhere. Because most of our activity was in, religious, was in division headquarters, which we had very, very little contact with, except by phone, and by message.

Were there other Jewish servicemen in your unit that-

Yes.

Were you aware of each other?

Yes.

You were?

Yes.

Did you get together for services?

No.

Ever? I mean, just felt...

Because of the fact that we never were at any place where really services were offered.

Okay. Do you recall the day you left the service?

Well, I would say there was a hiatus there. But I suppose, except for that hiatus of a few months, I never did leave the service. From the time I got in to the time I got out.

Until you retired.

I mean, I was of course a civilian, but I was also a military as well.

Mm-hmm. Where were you when the war ended?

As I said, I was in a, I would say, southern part of Europe, somewhere around Montsberg as they . . . where the concentration camp was. And then we moved into the let's see where would we be after that. For a while we were outside of Stuttgart, but that was after I came back from school. But mainly in parts of Germany, and I don't remember the city off hand. And then, of course, I think I mentioned that we went to Bérus. And when I was in Bérus, again, there wasn't too much of a synagogues or anything like that. I was on the edge of Spain, we were.

Beerus, if you're familiar with this, is right on the coast of actually the Mediterranean. Gorgeous city, but not much relation to even either.

Did you make any close friendships while you were in the service?

A lot.

Did you continue to...?

A number of them. In fact, I'm still a member of the 12th Armor -the Hellcat Association, which is the 12th Armor. However, it's getting smaller and smaller and smaller, until one of these days they're talking about disbanding.

Are you a member of any veterans or other organizations related to your service?

May I sit, look. I was President of the Nebraska Reserve Officers Association. Statewide, and otherwise. I was commander of the Iowa and Nebraska Jewish War Veterans Association. I was a member of the American Legion, it had been for years, but I never was that active in it. As far as the various activities I have in military groups, I've got two paragraphs on. At which mainly I was usually the president or the commander. If you want them, I'll be glad to tell you what they are. It's up to you completely.

Go right ahead.

Well, in 1977, in Who's Who in Nebraska, I copied this out of it. I was the coordinator of the Byron Reed collection, president of the Byron Reed Historical Association. You see, many decorations, I guess there were four other roles. Omaha Bar Association. I was president and attorney of the Retired Officers Association, now Military Officers Association of America. I was an art instructor and student at Bérus France. I was an ex-official member of the Naval Reserve Training Command. I was, of course, in the 5th Army JAG Office. Command General Staff, member of the Nebraska Bar, U.S. District Court, United States Supreme Court, U.S. Tax Court, Court of Military Appeals, I was a member of that. I don't know what I was trying to say. I could give a lot more than that. That's enough of it.

Are there reunions on any of your service organizations that you attend?

I attended most of them because I was president of most of them. However, the ones that I'm active in right now is probably still the one that I mentioned, which is mostly, I would say mostly, high-ranking officers. Retired Officers Association, Military Officers Association of America. I was formerly as commander, and I'm still active on the board. My wife and my son, believe it or not, are fairly active. I go out with them some time to the Reserve Officers Association, which they have a group that takes in pies, and it's getting smaller and smaller. I was, at one time, commander of that, and the attorney for both of them.

Do you have any most memorable experience?

I'll give you one which I feel is probably a miracle. We were in a place called Bischwiller, which was a great hospital in Germany.

At that time, the Germans had caved in on us. 1,500 members were possibly killed. We were surrounding a large hospital. Everybody that could damn near walk or carry a gun was in one of the doorways, a big hospital, numerous doorways. I was there at the break of morning, it was dark, and as the light started, I heard something (clap, clap) that sound right in front of me. I challenged it with my rifle. I didn't know who was there. We knew the Germans were out there. They had an American uniform and spoke American English. So, as you were supposed to ask 'em a question, if you didn't like the answer, shoot. The morning started breaking. I looked as far as about, I would say, not more than three to four feet in front of me were two tank shells. Neither of them exploded. I had challenged two tank shells that either one would have blown me and the doorway to kingdom come. And you could look on the hill, and there was a line of king tigers out there ready to come in on us in the morning. A doctor I knew drove past me and said, Jerry, what in the hell are you doing here? Everybody's leaving. And I told him, he says, do you know where the guards are? I said, yes. He said, hop in. We're going to get rid of them. We'll get them out. And we went around, and I grabbed one of the trucks going out, so did everybody else, and we came out of there. But I would say, if anything, as close as a miracle as you could possibly ever have, either one would have blown me and the doorway to kingdom come.

Is there anything else you'd like to wrap this interview up with in particular?

Nothing except what you might want to know.

I think I've asked my questions. I'd like to thank Mr. Grossman for this opportunity to interview him, and we are finished.