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Bea Karp Shoah Foundation Testimony Part 1

Shoah Foundation video testimonies are available for viewing in Nebraska at the Don L. Love Memorial Library at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln and the Dr. C. C. and Mabel L. Criss Library at the University of Nebraska at Omaha. For other locations, see the full list of institutions where videos may be viewed.

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Cameraman:

Count please from one to ten, so I can check your mic.

Beatrice Karp:

Okay. One. Two. Three. Four. Five. Six. Seven. Eight. Nine. Ten.

Cameraman:

Thanks. Sheryl?

Sheryl Tatelman:

One. Two. Three. Four. Five. Six. Seven. Eight. Nine. Ten.

Cameraman:

Thanks.

Sheryl Tatelman:

Today is November 1st, 1995. We are interviewing Beatric Karp, whose maiden name was Stern. I'm Sheryl Tatelman, and we're in Omaha, Nebraska in the United States. We'll be interviewing in English. I'm Sheryl Tatelman, and I'm here in Omaha, Nebraska interviewing Beatrice Karp. Today is November 1st, 1995. Could you tell us your name please?

Beatrice Karp:

My name is Beatrice Karp.

Sheryl Tatelman:

And your maiden name?

Beatrice Karp:

And my maiden name was Stern.

Sheryl Tatelman:

And when were you born?

Beatrice Karp:

I was born October 8, 1932.

Sheryl Tatelman:

And where were you born?

Beatrice Karp:

In Germany, and the town was Lauterbach.

Sheryl Tatelman:

Could you spell that for us please?

Beatrice Karp:

It's L-A-U-T-E-R-B-A-C-H.

Sheryl Tatelman:

And was that a large town?

Beatrice Karp:

No, it was a very small town in those days.

Sheryl Tatelman:

Was there a large Jewish population in that town?

Beatrice Karp:

I could not tell you how many there were, but we had a fairly large synagogue, I remember that. So, there must've been quite a few Jews living there.

Sheryl Tatelman:

Did you live in a Jewish neighborhood?

Beatrice Karp:

That I don't remember.

Sheryl Tatelman:

What kind of a family did you come from? Was it a, a religious family?

Beatrice Karp:

Yes. My father, especially my father, was Orthodox, and we followed the Orthodox way. And we had a large family on my father's side. There were 14 children, and on my mother's side, there were five.

Sheryl Tatelman:

So a large extended family?

Beatrice Karp:

Extended family, that's right.

Sheryl Tatelman:

What about your immediate family?

Beatrice Karp:

And well, my sister, it was just my sister and I.

Sheryl Tatelman:

And her name?

Beatrice Karp:

And her name is Susie.

Sheryl Tatelman:

And how old is she, or how, what's the age difference between the two of you?

Beatrice Karp:

There's four years difference between us, and she's younger.

Sheryl Tatelman:

And so, it was you and your sister and your parents. Did anyone else live in your home with you?

Beatrice Karp:

Yes. We had our grandmother live with us, and also an uncle who was still going to the university.

Sheryl Tatelman:

And you said that you lived in an Orthodox family. In what kinds of ways did your family show that they were Orthodox?

Beatrice Karp:

Well, it was, we naturally kept the Sabbath. We kept kosher. We went to synagogue. My father went in the morning and the late afternoon, evening. And it was just an Orthodox household.

Sheryl Tatelman:

What was Shabbat like in your household?

Beatrice Karp:

It was like, Friday nights actually, only my father would go to services, and we would wait for him to come home. My mother didn't do any cooking on the Sabbath, and we used to go to, to the park in the afternoons, Sabbath afternoons, and go for walks. I also remember her having a tub filled with water underneath the kitchen sink, and she used to have fish that was alive, fish. And I know that was in preparation for the Sabbath.

Sheryl Tatelman:

Do you remember that as, as a special time, a different time than the rest of the week?

Beatrice Karp:

Yes, definitely. Yes, it was always a very special time, and as I got older, I remember my father, we also used to play games. And I still remember one of the games we used to play was Muhle, and it was just a board game.

Sheryl Tatelman:

And you played it only on the Sabbath?

Beatrice Karp:

That's the only time really that we used to have for things like that, for recreation. Otherwise, my parents were very busy.

Sheryl Tatelman:

What did your parents do?

Beatrice Karp:

My father, he had a, they had a small textile store, but he used to be on the road a lot of the time, and my mother used to take care of the store. And so they were busy all the time trying to make a decent living for us. And my grandmother used to take care of us.

Sheryl Tatelman:

And you said your mother worked in the store with your father?

Beatrice Karp:

Yes. And many times, she was alone in the store because like I said, my father was on the road selling the different textiles.

Sheryl Tatelman:

Was that unusual in that time period?

Beatrice Karp:

Well, they tell me that it was unusual.

Sheryl Tatelman:

What kind of relationship did you have with your sister?

Beatrice Karp:

Oh, it was a close relationship. She was my little sister. But sometimes, as we got older, I used to also take advantage of her. But it, has always been a good relationship, despite the usual sibling rivalries. But it's good.

Sheryl Tatelman:

You were talking a little bit about your parents before. What kind of a person was your mother?

Beatrice Karp:

She was, well, sadly enough, I lost my mother when I was, I was not with her anymore after the age of eight. But she, I remember her as being a smart person, business-wise especially. I think she really enjoyed working outside of the home, even though I resented it at times because after my grandmother left, why, then we used to have other people taking care of us. And sometimes I would resent that very much. And my father also, he was, he was a college educated man, and he was also very smart, kept the books. And that's about all that I remember. My father used to have a lot of patience with us. He used to take us many times to the park and for walks, and taught us a lot of things. He's the one that taught me how to read Hebrew, and he taught us a lot about our religion, told us many of the Bible stories, and that's what I remember about them.

Sheryl Tatelman:

And your grandmother lived in your home with you, but then you just said that at, she left at some point.

Beatrice Karp:

She left in 1935. My uncle, who, who even tried to talk my father into leaving Germany, he left, realizing that things were not going well for the Jewish people. And he took my grandmother and his sister with him to Israel, or Palestine at that time.

Sheryl Tatelman:

What do you remember about that time about them leaving?

Beatrice Karp:

Not too much. I remember mostly the arguments my uncle had with my father. And, you know, my father, he just didn't want to leave Germany, and I think looking back on it, I have more understanding for it. But at the time, I didn't quite understand it. In some way, I was starting to get afraid, and also, becoming insecure about living in Germany. But, my father after all, he didn't know any other language but German. And I suppose to move and go to a different country seemed insurmountable to him, and he had so much more responsibility than my uncle did. So, he thought a little bit more about. And also, he had a lot of faith. You know he was, he had different sense of values. Being Orthodox, having a lot of faith in God, even faith, you look at people in a different way, even. He, he thought for sure that somebody would stop this madman, Hitler, that something would be done. He had a lot of faith in people, but it never happened. And we stayed on, and my uncle left.

Sheryl Tatelman:

And what was your uncle's name?

Beatrice Karp:

Siegfried.

Sheryl Tatelman:

And he was your, on which side?

Beatrice Karp:

He was my mother's brother.

Sheryl Tatelman:

So, his last name was?

Beatrice Karp:

Well, his, his last name is Gottlieb.

Sheryl Tatelman:

Gottlieb. And he left with your grandmother?

Beatrice Karp:

Yes, and my aunt.

Sheryl Tatelman:

And an aunt, and they all went to Israel?

Beatrice Karp:

Yes, and that was about 1935.

Sheryl Tatelman:

Was there a lot of tension in the house at that time?

Beatrice Karp:

At that time, yes, there was tension in the house. I mean, life just wasn't easy. Also, I still remember my parents coming, coming home and being very agitated because they had to go somewhere, an they had to register. And they all received middle names. Sarah for the women and Israel for the man. And that upset them, I remember no end.

Sheryl Tatelman:

Was that before or after your uncle left?

Beatrice Karp:

I think, see I don't remember the time element. I just remember that it did happen in Lauterbach.

Sheryl Tatelman:

And you said that even as, you were still a young child at the time, but you were becoming fearful.

Beatrice Karp:

I was because I had also, to me it was a frightful experience because I had never seen anything like it. We were playing in the street one day, and suddenly this big tank, army tank rolled down the street. And it just petrified me. And for a little girl, that tank looked absolutely huge. And I still remember screaming and running back to my house. Momma! Momma! And I also because just the whole atmosphere, the way it was, for instance, I remember I played dead. And the reason for that was I used to have nightmares because of rumors that were going around. I used to hear that this one never came back home again. I remember my mother saying, making sure you're home before you're, before it gets dark. Then a cousin of mine was killed, but I don't really know the details, I just know he died. And in those days, children didn't ask questions of grown-ups. So, you just listened to what they were saying, not fully understanding what was going on, but I think that made you even more scared.

Sheryl Tatelman:

Did you understand that it was especially dangerous because you were Jewish?

Beatrice Karp:

Yes. That I knew. As a matter of fact, for the longest time, I used to think that it was a war against the Jews. I didn't realize even that it was a world war.

Sheryl Tatelman:

Had you experienced any anti-Semitism in your town, in your school?

Beatrice Karp:

Not in Lauterbach. It only happened when we moved to Karlsruhe. And there, I had to start going to school. And it was, the anti-Semitism was rampant. Going to school and coming home was a nightmare because kids would yell after you dirty Jew, Christ killer, and all kinds of names, push you in the streets, and I had long braids so they would pull my hair, and we would teased terribly, and terrible fights would break out between boys. And it was, it was a nightmare, and it only lasted for a year and then Hitler said that the Jewish children couldn't attend school anymore. So, I was not unhappy about it.

Sheryl Tatelman:

You said you moved from, you moved to Karlsruhe.

Beatrice Karp:

We moved to Karlsruhe, yes, because in 1936, my family had to give up their house and the store because we couldn't hold any property anymore. And my father, not knowing any other business and not being able to find anything to work at in that small town because it was mostly a farming community in those days, didn't know how to make a, how to earn money for us. So we moved to Karlsruhe, and one of the reasons I think we moved there is because he had a brother living there with his family. And that was a big city. But at first, no one wanted to rent an apartment to a Jewish family, so we lived with them, with that family. And my cousins, they had three children, my cousins, and two of the cousins are still alive today. They live in Israel. And we talk sometimes about those days because we used to slept all in one, us five children used to sleep in one bedroom, and naturally that was . Now we can laugh about it, but at the time it wasn't too funny. And we stayed with them for about, I, I forgot exactly, for a few weeks until my father managed to find an apartment above a bank. And it was a very small apartment compared to the home we had had in Lauterbach. It was, it consisted of only three rooms. You went, you came into the apartment through the kitchen door. On one side of the kitchen was the bedroom and on the other side was the living room. And the bathroom was shared, it was out in the hallway, and we, we had to share it with other people on that floor. But we're happy to have a place of our own.

Sheryl Tatelman:

Did it still feel dangerous in that area?

Beatrice Karp:

Oh yes, very much so because by then, I had developed a certain hatred for the Nazis. I knew who was causing all our problems. As a matter of fact, one day, a few of us children were playing on the street. We didn't have a garden anymore to play in so it was the streets. And some Nazis were passing by so we picked up just little tiny pebbles out of the gutter, and we started throwing the pebbles at the Nazis. And at first, it was like a game, but then they got tired of it, and they turned around and started going after us. And we got terribly scared, and we went for our lives. And it was just lucky that we knew the alleyways of Karlsruhe a little better than they did. And we managed to escape them, but then when we went back upstairs to our apartment, my mother was absolutely furious with us, and she said from now on, I cannot let you play outside by yourselves. Either your father or I will have to be with you. So our lives became more restricted.

Sheryl Tatelman:

It sounds like even at that time, you understood that the Nazis had a lot of power and that

Beatrice Karp:

Oh yes, oh, oh definitely. I knew that because, well it was, it was just all over because we couldn't just go anywhere where we want to go, first of all. Signs appeared in front of stores saying Juden verboten, which means Jews are forbidden here. So, we just, even in parks, we couldn't go to parks, we couldn't, there are many places, public places, we just couldn't go to anymore. So yes, life was very, very restrictive.

Sheryl Tatelman:

It sounds like things happened in, in your perception, sort of happened gradually so that each

Beatrice Karp:

Yes.

Sheryl Tatelman:

Each thing would happen and then it would add on to the next thing.

Beatrice Karp:

That's right. Exactly.

Sheryl Tatelman:

And how were your parents responding to all of these new edicts?

Beatrice Karp:

It was very difficult on them; I could tell they were very, very nervous. And for, as a matter of fact, I think it was a relief to them it would, in the summer time, I used to go to summer camp. And even though I didn't want to go, I felt so insecure that I didn't even want to leave my parents, and it was very hard on me to leave them, but I think it was a relief for them. I don't know exactly all that went on in their lives, but I just know it was difficult. That's what I remember, and the tension in the household, it was not easy, not easy.

Sheryl Tatelman:

Was that happening among the other families, the cousins and the other Jewish families that you knew?

Beatrice Karp:

I think so, I think so. I think there was a lot of tension. And also, the fact is before Crystal Night, there was still a chance of you being able to leave, and there was always this question hanging over our heads: Should we leave? Shouldn't we leave? Then finally, my father did fill out all the papers and did everything he was supposed to do, and, and, and also had a sponsor. You had to have a sponsor, and he did have that, and then it was too late after Crystal Night. Why the doors closed, and one could not leave anymore.

Sheryl Tatelman:

So, this was an ongoing discussion within the family: Should we leave? Should we not?

Beatrice Karp:

Right. Definitely. Yes, and like I said, it, it sometimes, there were quarrels about it.

Sheryl Tatelman:

What happened on Crystal Night, on Kristallnacht?

Beatrice Karp:

One, well that night, I remember I was asleep already. And I was woken up because there was a lot of commotion out in the street, and so I ran to the window to see what was going on, and as I looked out, it was as though the whole city of Karlsruhe was burning and naturally what had happened was that all, they were burning all the synagogues. And my father and many other men, we found out later, they got dressed and went into the street to see what was going on. And we were waiting that night for our father to come home, but he never did and later on we found out that all the men had been rounded up and taken to a concentration camp. And, but I still remember my mother that night, walking back and forth in the bedroom waiting for my dad to come home. And he never did, and he was gone for a very, very long time, at least it seemed to me. I don't actually know, but to me, I really missed him. And he, it seemed like a long time. But then, one day I would, I happen to be playing in the kitchen and suddenly the kitchen door opens up, and there stands this man. He was covered with mud and blood, and he was shaking, and he was bent over. We had one of those old-fashioned, wood burning stoves right across from the kitchen door. And as he came through the door, he was about to put his hands on that stove. It must have been cold, I don't know. And at that instant, I recognized my father and I screamed, Papa, Papa it's hot. Well, my cries made my mother come into the kitchen, and she took one look at him, and she just was shocked because I remember putting her arms up like that and quickly going towards him. And she takes him into the bedroom, and he was a sick man for a long, long time. After that, he never was himself. He seemed thin and weak and but after a while, I noticed that he would be gone during the day and the evenings he would come home, and he always used to complain that his hands and fingers hurt him. And so one day, I said to him, Papa, how come? How come your fingers hurt you? And he says because I've become a bricklayer. So, I don't know from that whether he was put into slave labor. I, I, I'm inclined to think so but I’m not sure, but he did some sort of hard labor. So that's what I remember about Crystal Night. And then, it was, and it was just, it was a horrible night because after that, things seemed to get even worse for us. My mother

Sheryl Tatelman:

What ways?

Beatrice Karp:

Oh I, it just was the whole atmosphere, the whole mood. We were scared. First of all, my mother was alone with the two of us. And life just wasn't good. It was scary. And also, then about a year later, also what started happening was we had the air raids when war was declared on Germany by England and that was terribly frightening. And my parents, I remember, were home now, I mean when my father was gone during the day, but my mother was home, just most of the time, which was which I liked in one way. It gave me more security, but she wasn't gone like she always used to be gone.

Sheryl Tatelman:

How was she handling all the changes going on?

Beatrice Karp:

It was not easy. It really wasn't, and she also, health-wise, she had difficulty hearing, I remember. She had trouble with her ears, and I was the one that always had to, she didn't hear cars approach, for instance. And I don't know whether she had trouble even seeing, but I kind of always used to take her hand when we crossed the streets. And I used to say, Mama it's all right, and she developed certain, certain things that were wrong with her.

Sheryl Tatelman:

So, it sounds like in some ways, you had to grow up very quickly.

Beatrice Karp:

I had to grow up very fast, yes.

Sheryl Tatelman:

After your father came back from the camp and he was working as a bricklayer, was, was that something that you were happy to have him home? There must have been a lot of sadness to see him like that.

Beatrice Karp:

There was sadness, yes. It was like, I don't remember everything exactly, it just when I look, when I think back, and in my mind when I look back on that time, it was a hard time for all of us very much. So, and I remember we had other family in in Karlsruhe, the grown-ups would get together. That's another thing that was a little bit scary because the grown-ups would often get together in the evenings. And there again, you had loud voices, arguments, and for a child to, at least for me, that meant insecurity. I was scared what was going on.

Sheryl Tatelman:

What happened next?

Beatrice Karp:

Then the next thing that I can remember was that one day, there was a loud knock on the kitchen door. My mother opens up the door and there stand, stood two gestapo men. And my mother asked them, what do you want? And they said, don't ask any questions, just go and pack. But she persisted, and they became angry with her and, but she asked them, well, where are you taking us? And how long are we going to be gone? And they said, just pack enough for two weeks. So my mother went to the bedroom, and she started packing, and I had a doll in those day that I loved very, very much. So, I go to the living room to pick up that doll. One of the Nazis follows me and when he sees me picking up that doll, he takes a hold of my arm and starts shaking me and saying, where you are going, you don't need this doll. And just the way he said it, I decided he wants that doll. And out loud, I said to him, if I can't have that doll, you can't have her either. And I took her, and I threw her down on the floor and my doll, her face was made out of porcelain, and she broke into many, many pieces. And that made me terribly upset, as a matter of fact, I was so upset that I don't remember my sister or my father during that whole episode. And yet, I know looking back, I know they must have been there. Well, my mother got done packing and we were about ready to leave, and I look around that small apartment and I think to myself, I just know that we'll never come back here again. And I take a hold of the leg of the kitchen table and I wouldn't let go of it. And my mother, she says, come on, come on Beater, let's go, let's go. And she had a terrible time trying to pry my hand loose, but she finally managed, and we walked out of the door. The Nazis took us to the railroad station and there, there were so many people. And I could tell some of them had been waiting a long time because they were laying on blankets sleeping, others were sitting on suitcases, and there were older people wringing their hands and, and, and crying and saying, what's going to happen to us? What's going to happen to us? Babies were crying, it was a general, pommel(?) mess. And everybody was asking the same question, where are they taking us? What's going on? Nobody really knew. This was very early in the war. This was in the fall of 1940. After a while, they put us on the train and now these were regular trains, not cattle trains. And we were, not all of us could find seats, some of us had to stand out in the hallway because the European trains are made out of compartments and just so many people could be squeezed into one apartment. My mother managed to find a seat, but I remember I was against the wall. And the train, after a while, started up and it went very, very slowly. And we traveled for some time but when the train went around the bend, it went even slower, and because there were so many people on the train and it was hot, the windows were open. So, some people decided to jump out of the windows and try and escape, but they didn't realize that there were Nazis on the roof of the train, and they had guns. And they shot these people that were trying to escape.

Sheryl Tatelman:

And everyone in the train saw this?

Beatrice Karp:

Yes. Maybe if they didn't see it, they must have heard the shots. But it was just terrible, and I don't know how many managed to escape. I have no idea.