Bea Karp Shoah Foundation Testimony Part 3

This is take three with Beatrice Karp. You were talking before about you at, in about 1942, you stopped hearing from your parents?

Yes, yes.

And before then, did you hear from them regularly? How often would you hear from them?

That I don't remember, but I did receive quite a few postcards.

Do you have any idea how the postcards were getting to you?

It was through regular French mail because I still remember seeing the, and I still have them to this day, there was a stamp, and the stamp was of the face of Petain. And they were censored so it was through the regular post.

Did you have any idea what that meant that they stopped sending you the cards?

I, I didn't know but rumors were starting to fly about other camps where they killed people and that scared me very, very much. So, I thought, oh something happened to my parents. And I was very, very upset and felt very, very alone and wondered what, what the future would be without parents.

So, you had already at that point started to think that they may not survive the war?

Yes, I was afraid of it because I, because there were so many rumors about it and how the Nazis were killing the Jewish people.

And that was the last time you heard from them?

And that, that was the last time, yes.

While you were in these different chateaus, who were the people that helped you out through these, it sounds like there were some kinds of adults who supervised the children?

Yes, oh definitely. There used to be at least two or three adults taking care of us. As a matter of fact, I ran into one lady who I didn't know but she made herself known to me. She happened to be a good friend of an aunt of mine, and her name is at that time, it was Santa Lowenstein(?). And she, and she, and she became part of the OSE. And she worked for one of those homes, and she took a special interest in my sister and I’m and that was very nice. And we've kept up the relationship and she made it out of there and lives now in Los Angeles. And I’ve kept up with her all these years.

Were the people who were in the working in the homes were they French Jews, all of them?

There were a lot of French but like, I call her an aunt because I used to think of her as an aunt now. She was originally from Germany, but she, at the time war broke out, she lived in France in Paris.

How did you, did you eat only food that was grown in these chateaus? You were talking about gardening.

Yes, that's why, we did, yes.

And how did you get from one chateau to the other?

Well, some, once I remember we were woken up at nighttime and we were taken by motorcycle. And it was my first motorcycle ride, and it was quite a harrowing experience. And also, it was also frightening at the same time because I remember the cook she blesses, she blessed me and she says, I hope you have a safe journey. I hope everything will be alright with you. And that alone, just her concern, bothered me at the time. And I wondered, what, what's going to happen to us? Then at other times, we walked. And sometimes, and we walked many, many, many miles. Other times, by train. Other times, in a farmer's cart. Whatever transportation that was available, but we were moved an awful lot.

Was it always the OSE that was helping you throughout these times?

Well, yes. During that time while we were in those homes, it was definitely these were all OSE homes and people, their people taking care of us and that, and that lasted until 1943.

Were there other children, were the other children in the home with you mostly German Jewish children or were there other children there?

There were other, I think there were some children, there were a few from Poland I think. And, and that's about it, I think, that I remember. Poland mostly or German and French.

And French. And you all spoke French between yourselves?

When we learned how to. At first, we spoke only German. I know I had a difficult time learning a new language. French seemed so difficult for me. And I resisted. And so, I used to learn in the school room, but then when I was out of the school room, I would speak German again with my friends. And then they finally put a stop to that. They said no, you have to speak French or try to speak French the whole time. Also, they wanted us to learn it because they were afraid if we would be maybe taken some place or lost, they want us to have, to be able to speak French fluently. They gave us identity cards and changed our names, like I was born Beate Stern and they changed my name to Beatrice. My sister was born Susie Stern and then they changed her name to Suzanne. They gave us a street address in Paris to say that is where we were from and they tried to make us as French as possible.

Did you get the idea that it was very important to play along with that role?

After a while, it took me a little while, but after a while, I realized that I better learn French. Yes.

Did you, were you ever afraid to speak German?

Then after a while, I just stopped speaking German because I like the sound of the French and also, I started being ashamed of being German. And I tried very hard to almost become very French and just forget about being German.

Did you ever have any contact during that time with the partisan groups? The marquis?

Yes, the marquis I remember because they were the ones that used to, I don't know whether it was always them, but at times they used to furnish us with the transportation that we had going from home to home. And I always felt that they were kind of looking out for us.

Did you ever speak with those people?

Oh yes, naturally sometimes, yes.

And were they all French people?

I think they must have been French.

Were you, as you said that you were moved from chateau to chateau, were there times when you felt especially in danger?

I always felt in danger. I never felt comfortable and as a matter of fact, when you, when you are, when you always feel like that in danger, I used to play games mentally. And I used to pretend I was a princess in this chateau, and I used to play all kinds of games and some of the women when we got together two years ago remembered me by that. And they all said, ah here comes the little princess. So, I, I did, it was, it, it was very, it was difficult. It was very difficult living that way.

Were you still concerned about your parents? You hadn't heard anything from them?

Yes, constantly. Constantly I worried about my parents, yes.

At what point did you, what time did you leave the chateau or these children's homes?

Okay, it was in 1943. I can't tell you the month. And this organization realized that they couldn't keep us in the homes anymore because Hitler was in a hurry now to kill all the Jews and very quickly. Because by then in 1943, he had established the death camps and he knew what to do with all of us, so these homes were raided constantly, and we weren't safe anymore. So, this organization took some of the children and put them with Christian families.

And then my sister and my case and some of the other kids, we went to hide in a convent. And we went to Millau, that was the name of the town. It was in the central part of France, a little further north, and it was a small town. The convent was very nice. I liked being there, not right away because I had to get used to it, but after a while I liked it. I felt safe there for the first time. And also, for the first time, I slept again between two sheets, and we had food. It's true we had a lot of chestnuts. I remember we used to eat chestnuts twice daily, and but we used to have hot chocolate on Sundays and that was a big treat for us.

We went to church. We did everything what the other children did, the Christian children because this was a boarding school convent, so there were a lot of Christian Catholic children. And the sisters were very good to us. I don't think that all of them knew that we were in hiding. I think there were only a couple of sisters that actually knew what, who we were and what was going on with us. There was one sister in particular I’ll never forget. Her, her name is soeur de l'espoir, and in translation it means soeur, her name is sister of hope, and she looked out for me. And because of the kindness and the security that I felt, and I liked the story of baby Jesus, I had never heard of it before, I had never even heard of Jesus before. It all sounded very attractive to me and I want to turn Catholic. I was tired by then of being Jewish. And I said to soeur de l'espoir, you know it would be good if I would turn Catholic. I want to be one of you. I’m tired of being Jewish. I’m tired of wanting all the time and being hunted. So, she said to me, remember your father's teachings and don't make up your mind now. You wait, when this is all over with and when you're with your own people again, and I’ve never forgotten these words and so I never turned Catholic.

This organization the, the OSE, they still came and visited us. There was always a lady that would come and visit us periodically. She would take us out of the convent and we even went to see a movie once. I still even remember the name of it. And they kept very good tabs on us. We stayed in the convent until almost the end of the war.

One incident happened to me while we were there. The air raids were still going on first of all and that was always frightening. And the sisters didn't believe in going to an air raid shelter. As a matter of fact, we used to go in the courtyard, form a circle and dance around, and the only protection that they would let us have would be a piece of wood to put between our teeth so that if a, when a bomb falls usually like you know everything trembles and, and so like that we wouldn't bite our tongue. And, and that was very, very scary, but they weren't, I don't remember too many air raids.

And the other thing one day, as we were walking to church and we always walked two by two. We had uniforms on. I stood out a bit more than the other children because nobody had bothered cutting my hair. I had long blonde hair. And Millau, the town, was completely occupied by Nazis. So as we were walking along, suddenly, a Nazi came over to me and started touching my hair. And I became terribly scared. And I don't, he talked to me, but I don't remember what he said. And it was lucky that the sister, head of the line, happened to turn around and she saw what was going on and quickly came towards us and started talking to him. But I was trembling, I was so scared. And thank goodness I didn't react to him because if I would have just opened up my mouth, he would have known I was German. So, it was just lucky I didn't say for a change, I was very quiet, and I didn't say anything. And that was scary but that's the only two bad experiences that I can remember in the convent. Otherwise, it was, it was a good place to hide and we stayed at the convent till almost the end of the war. And then this organization, the OSE, took us back again and we went to another chateau. And we stayed there until it was all over with.

When you were in the convent, do you remember feeling confused because you were going to church?

No. I, it really, it didn't, the whole thing didn't really bother me very much for some reason. We learned, we studied the catechism, and I liked the whole story. I liked it. I remember they gave me a medallion of a saint and I had to wear that -- Saint Catherine. And I used to think she smiled at me. I must have had some imagination and it was just a very, you know it was, it just was very nice being there.

You said that OSE came and took you out again. Were there other, you were there with your sister?

And other children and other Jewish children. We were about a dozen Jewish children that were hidden in that convent.

And how many children were there total? Do you have any idea?

Oh, in the convent?

Yeah.

Oh, I would say maybe 40, 50.

So, there were quite a few.

There were quite a few, yes. It was quite a large school, convent school.

How old were you at that time?

At that time I was close to 12 years old.

What did you think when the OSE came back to take you out?

Well I, first of all I knew it was the end and I was happy to be with them again anyhow. You know I mean these were my people and I, and I knew the difference. And I knew that the convent had just been an interlude.

So, you felt more comfortable among the people in the chateau?

Oh yes, definitely yes.

And what was it like there when you did know it was near the end?

First of all, we saw the planes coming over and, in those days, you know, I didn't know from politics, but I remember we saw the Russian planes come. We saw the American planes come. And I still remember hanging out of the windows from the chateaus and, and, and, and waving at them and we were all so happy and we heard about Roosevelt and, and to us he was a hero at that time. And it was, it was great. And yet at the same time, as happy that we were that the war was over with, we all felt so insecure because we didn't know what was going to happen. We didn't know whether our parents were alive, whether there was any family still living. It was also a very frightening time. And yet also a happy time.

How long was it after you left the convent that the war was over?

Oh, I don't, I don't remember that. That I can't say because time didn't mean anything to me. I don't remember even ever looking at a calendar or having looked at the watch. That isn't the way we operated.

When, when were you actually liberated? Was it

It was in 45 and it was, I think it was in May.

Was it by American troops?

You know when you say liberated, I don't know because we were out in the country. We didn't actually, you know, it isn't like being in the city where you see the marching and whatnot, it wasn't like that with us. I didn't have that experience. I just knew it was over with.

So how did you know?

Because of the planes and because of what the other children who were older, smarter than me and what some of the grown-ups said.

Were you ever afraid of the planes?

Well, I was, yes, I was because I even had a bad experience in the convent. We had a terrible experience in the convent once. I forgot about that, it just dawned on me. I remember we had recess and we were out in the courtyard and I, and we were eating boiled potatoes. And suddenly we saw these planes, but they weren't big planes. They were rather small planes. And they were shooting, and they were shooting at us.

Shooting at the children?

Yes. I mean maybe not, not me. I don't know whether they meant to shoot at, I just know they were shooting, and it felt like, oh they're going to get us. Maybe it wasn't even at us, maybe it could have been a few miles away but that's the way it looked, and you know I remember we ran and ran; we ran out of the courtyard. And we were so scared, and we kept thinking those planes were following us. Whether they actually were or not, I don't know, but they must have been German planes. But those planes that came to liberate us were big planes. They were different looking. And because everybody else was happy about it, I was happy because actually I, you know if I would have been alone, I might have gotten scared, I don't know. But everybody was happy, and we knew that this was liberation. So, this was liberation for me, you might say -- the physical part of it.

The pla -- was seeing the planes?

The planes, right, and knowing that the Americans and the Russians were coming to liberate us.

What happened next?

Well then, this organization, they had all us children on their hands and what to do with us because nobody knew where our parents were. So, what they did, at least in my sister's and my case, was they advertised in a German Jewish newspaper that Susie and Beate Stern are looking for any living relatives. And I have that advertisement, but God only knows where I put it. And my grandmother was the first one to read the advertisement in the Aufbau.

Yes, it was the Aufbau, and it's a German Jewish newspaper that circulates in Israel, in your big cities, and she lived near Haifa at that time, and like New York and I know, I saw it in London. I even saw it in New York City, and even here in Omaha when we first came, I think I saw a couple of editions of it. So it's quite a, it has quite a large circulation, and she read it in that newspaper and she wrote to us. She was the first one that we heard from and I was overjoyed. Then soon we heard from my aunts in New York and also my uncle in England and.

Did they all find you through the same advertising?

Well, my grandmother got in touch with them and then they all wanted us to come and stay with them. I want to go to Israel because I remembered my grandmother. I remembered my uncle and my sister want to go to England because that was a shorter route. She says, no, no let’s go to Israel, it's too far away, and so we went to England.

This was an aunt and uncle in England?

Yes, it was the father of my father and he was married, and they had a little boy.

Now what were their names?

Their names are, well my aunt is still living. Her name is Mary Stern and my uncle's name was Siegfried. He passed away a few years ago.

Was this the same uncle who had lived with you before the war?

No, no, no because that uncle that lives in Israel is the father of my mother.

You and your sister, did you fight where you were going to go? Was it a conflict between the two of you?

Well, it was a little bit of a conflict, but I gave in to her because she still was little. She was still weak, and I was more or less to protect, I felt responsible for her.

So, you felt like going to England would have been the safest for her?

Yes, and also then, my grandmother wrote that things weren't going so well in Israel, that they had a lot of problems, that, that food was not plentiful and that it was a harder life. And I think the other relatives convinced us that England would be a better choice.

Did you have, did you have any idea what had happened to your parents at that point?

No, I didn't. As a matter of fact, before we boarded the ship, we went to Paris. And then this lady I told you about, that kind, from the OSE that looked out for us, she, she's the one that took us to Paris. And she was looking for her husband, she didn't know what had happened to her husband. I didn't know what happened to my parents so I would go with her and we would go to certain buildings where they had lists of people and I never did find the names of my parents and she never found the name of her husband. But that was a very difficult thing to do too. We used to do it almost every day while we were there, looking for them.

Your other relatives, your, for instance, your grandmother and your aunt and your uncle, they had gone, left Germany before the war? So, they had, did they have any idea what had been going on?

Yes, a little bit because my parents also had written to them while they were in the concentration camp, so they knew a little bit what went on. They didn't know what had happened to us then after 43. They didn't know where we were or what had happened.

And what happened when you went to England?

Well, it was really a great feeling to live in a house, to have running water, to have food, to sleep in a nice bed, to have a fireplace in your room. It felt great. But the thing that I remember also was the fact that for the first time in my life, I was able to walk down the street and nobody yelled at me, dirty Jew. And it was as though a big weight had been lifted off my shoulders and here, I was, 12 years old, and for the first time in my life, I felt what freedom was all about.

How did you adapt to living with your aunt and your uncle?

It was fine. I learned to be adaptable and my aunt was very nice. I remember she gave me pocket money. I went for the first time, no I went for the second time to movies, but this time I went to many movies. And I made friends. As a matter of fact, I still had the same girlfriend that I had in England at that time. And I liked it there.

I went to school. It was a Jewish high school, but it was very, very hard for me. I had, I had missed too much because I had only had one year of schooling and it was very hard for me because they also studied the Talmud, and to me, it was all quick. I mean I, and plus, learning the alphabet properly because the German alphabet is the old one, is different than the way we know the alphabet. And there were so many things missing, I just couldn't do it. Plus learning a new language. I lasted six weeks in school and that was it. I just couldn't take it anymore.

Also, we had trouble with our feet when we came out of there because we didn't have shoes, so we walked barefoot many times, for most of the time and we had calluses about an inch thick and to get these calluses off was very, very difficult to do. And we had to doctor for that, and it was very, very painful. So, life at first was a bit difficult in that respect.

My uncle, he had kind of like a little factory in his home sewing handbags. And I was very intrigued by that. I learned how to sew on the sewing machine, and I helped him. And then also I used to go out all over London, taking the subway, taking handbag samples and showing them to people and they would give me orders and I would take the orders back again to my uncle and he would fill the order and I would take big boxes of handbags to the various people. I really don't know how I managed to find all these places, but I did. And so, I helped them and that made me feel very good. I liked doing that. So, I, and then my aunt enrolled me in the sewing class, and I learned how to sew and at the age of 13, I had my first job working, sewing and so that was it.