Interview with Hannah Rosenberg Gradwohl and John Rosenberg (Part 1)

Hello, we're here today in Ames, Iowa. Today is June 23rd 2025.

I'm here with Hanna Rosenberg Gradwohl and John Gradwohl, my-

John Rosenberg.

John Rosenberg. My name is Beth Dotan.

I am from Omaha, but we are in Ames, Iowa.

All right. Hanna, I understand that you came to the United States as a very young child. Can you tell us a little bit about your brief life in Germany before you came?

At the time I was told I was not quite two when we immigrated, but at the time we had relatives that met with my parents and grandparents in Switzerland. They did not even want to set foot in Hitler's Germany at the time. And they said they would provide the papers for us to immigrate to the United States. And they so I don't recall the journey at all, but I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska in a very old house. I think the house is still standing on the corner of 16th and B Street. And it was a three-generation household. My grandparents and my great-aunt. That was my mother's sister.

Can you please give me their names?

My grandparents were Kate.

Kate and Alfred.

Kate, I couldn't remember. I always called them Oma and Opa, which is German for grandma and grandpa, but Kate and

Alfred.

Speier were my grandparents.

How did they spell Speier?

S-P-E-I-E-R. But in German, it would be pronounced Speier.

And my parents were Ilsa and Ludwig Rosenberg. We lived in this very old house on the corner of 16th and B Street in Lincoln, Nebraska. And I attended Capitol School, which I have heard they eventually had torn down and apartments were built there. The school did not have a kindergarten.

It was a very old school, and I don't know why, but there was no kindergarten there. So I started first grade when I was four.

I wanted to ask a quick question. You said you lived in a three-generation home. Did your grandparents come at the same time as your parents?

I believe they came a year before my parents.

Do you know what year that was?

1936. Is that right, John?

Yes.

Who were their sponsors?

There was a family in Lincoln, Nebraska, and they were Allen

Al and Hen Speier.

Al and Henry. We called her Aunt Hen, but Henrietta Speier.

Right.

Yes, okay. S-P-E-I-E-R. And they met my parents and grandparents in Switzerland. They did, at the time, did not even want to step into Germany because Hitler was already in power at that time. So I have no memory of the journey. I'm not sure how long the trip was by boat. Landing in New York and then taking a train, I believe, to Lincoln, Nebraska.

Did your parents have English skills before they arrived?

Yes, I think they, yes, I think they learned English in school and so they they were prepared. I guess I wasn't talking yet at that time, so.

And when all of these difficult years were happening when the family was still in Germany, were Al and Henrietta writing back and forth? Were they arranging things?

I think that that's what what they were doing and I only remember them saying that they were, they did not even want to set foot in Germany. And so they met with my family in Switzerland to make the arrangements for the for our trip.

So one of the things that I found interesting is that you have all kept a lot of correspondence over the years. So did those letters between 1936 and 1937 when you arrived, are those also in your possession today?

Yes, they are and John's wife was fluent in German because she was born there and was translating and writing down the English equivalence of the letters and she, how far along did she get in the-

She did all the letters from the grandparents who remained in Germany, our father's parents.

So these were letters between both both sides of the family, both your maternal and paternal families. And did you, they were they were transcribed but not yet translated?

That's correct. Yeah.

Okay. So you're not sure yet about the content?

No.

And unfortunately John's wife, Olga, they were in a serious accident and she did not survive so.

So sorry about that. Well, what do you know about your paternal grandparents?

Um Did they go? No they didn't go to, they...

No, no. Dad's older brother, I think went to Palestine.

And what was his name?

Fritz and his wife Hilda, Fritz Rosenberg. They had a son who was about Hannah's age, I think also.

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And his name was?

I think they called him Jochenon, but I think his given name was George, or Georg.

Georg, yeah. But they called him Jochenon.

And when you were growing up, or in those first years after you were able to recall, did you have interaction or did your parents tell you about your paternal grandparents?

No. They... German children were protected from learning all the facts, I think, of you know, the sad situation, the deaths, and so forth. So I don't recall having known anything about what happened to the rest of the family. They just didn't talk about it.

But the letters that they still received even after the war began, often referred to Hannah, they called her mausi or mausi lein. So she was certainly remembered in the letters.

And you said that your parents would have you mention the family names when you said your prayers at night?

Yes, Opa and Oma and

Hedwig and Benno, yeah.

Hedwig and Benno and

Uncle Julius.

And Uncle Julius, yes.

So was your family particularly religious that you said prayers at night, or was this just part of the family tradition?

I said well, we are Reformed Jews, not Conservative Jews. And yeah, when I said prayers, I mentioned all their names, I believe. But they, I never knew or was never told what happened to the family that didn't get out of the country. So.

So John, how was it that the information came to light for your family later?

I think with discovery when my mother and aunt after my father died, much later my mother and aunt moved here to Ames. And I think at that time my brother-in-law, David Gradwohl, probably found the letters that they had preserved, and I guess I learned about things through those through those letters, and then I think you and David took the mom and Eva to Germany, and you actually visited the concentration camp, Terezín or Theresianstadt, in Czechoslovakia at that time, and discovered the records of their internment.

So on your trip to Theresianstadt, you went into the archives?

Yeah, I wasn't on that trip. It was Hannah and David, and I don't think that the, did the parents, or did mom and Eva go with you to Theresianstadt?

I can't remember.

That's okay.

I mean they were on that trip, but I'm not sure. I don't think they actually went there. They were definitely on the trip, but I'm not sure they went into the camp because it was too scary and horrifying.

So, um, why don't you tell us a little bit more about your young childhood in Lincoln, and what it meant to be this Jewish child coming from Germany growing up in a community like Lincoln.

Well, the school that I attended did not have a kindergarten. It was the oldest school in Lincoln, and they tore it down a number of years ago. They did not talk to me at all about what happened in Germany. That, you know, I think they felt that was not appropriate for a young child to know.

And the school that I attended was about four long blocks away from where we lived, and I walked home. I walked to school in the morning, and I walked home for lunch. They didn't have lunch at the time, served at school. Maybe they did, but I wasn't aware of it, and then I'd walk back, but I was put into first grade since there was no kindergarten, and I was not quite five years old when I started school. So, all through the years, I was always the youngest in the class. Everybody got their driver's license long before I qualified to do that. And so, I went to that school, and there were some wonderful teachers there, as I recall. But when it came time for junior high, the school that I should have attended in my where, near where I lived, was not a good school.

And so, I went to Irving Junior High, which was way across town from where we lived, and I remember, you know, going by streetcar, or perhaps Dad drove me to school. I'm not sure.

And then, where did you go to high school?

Lincoln High. At the time, there were two high schools. Lincoln High and Northeast High School. Ands . . .

Did you have a good high school experience?

Oh, yeah. I loved it. Yeah, I had mostly wonderful teachers. I remember a couple of them that I didn't care for, particularly, and I was not as gifted in mathematics as my brother, who is wonderful at math. And he's much smarter than I am, really.

Well, it sounds like you complimented each other with your knowledge acquired.

Yeah.

So, how many years difference between the two of you?

He was, he was born, I was born in 1935, and he was born in 1945.

Nine and a half years.

Yeah.

And did you go to the same schools, John?

Pretty much. I went to the Capitol Grade School, although they did have a kindergarten when I went there, and then went to Irving Junior High School for one year, but then the family moved because my grandmother had had a stroke and needed a house. We needed to live in a house with a bathroom on the first floor. So, we moved into a district where a new high school and junior high had been built, and I went to Southeast Junior High and High School.

And what did you think of your little brother?

Oh, I liked him.

I was a pest, actually.

Oh, I like, I always liked you.

Was it nice to have a little brother after all those years?

Yeah. All my friends had much bigger families, and I never, you know, early on I didn't have, I was just a single. So, I didn't think you were a pest. [laughs]

And what was it like at home, living with your grandparents, with having your parents as well?

Um, my grandmother actually was my primary caretaker when I was young, because both my parents were working.

Where were they working?

They were, were, they were working at Gold's Department Store, which was a wonderful store, as I remember.

Was there a family relation with the Gold department store?

Yes. Cousins, I believe.

Hen Speier was, I think, a member of the Gold family.

Yeah, and they, they were very wealthy, very wealthy, as I remember. I mean, compared to us.

So your father worked at Gold Department Store?

Yes.

What did he do?

And he was in men's work clothing, and he eventually became...

Department.

Department head.

And buyer for the department.

Right.

Did he have skill before to be able to enter into a position like that?

I think so. I think, you know, they, they learned English to be quite fluent and...

So he was in this kind of work before they came from Germany?

They owned a store in...

Where?

In Sonneberg, Germany, in Thuringia.

What was the name of that store, do you know?

I don't know. I'm sorry.

I don't remember. I, I remember seeing looking at photographs of what the store looked like, but...

Did they sell cloth or something? Was that... cloth or...

And I think they sold yard goods.

Oh, okay.

But I think a lot of their sales were probably done with traveling salesmen to the surrounding communities. But I've never been there. I think when you and David took Mom and Eva to Germany, I think you visited Sonneberg and saw the building where the store was.

And was still standing.

Yes.

After the war. So.

And what did your mother do for work?

She was in, in the... sa- she was in sales, I think, you know, in, but I don't...

After dad died, she worked at Gold's, but I think when they first came over she might have actually worked in the laundry for a while.

Oh, yes.

The Speier family

owned a laundry and dry cleaning business, and that's right. She was working there. And my grandmother was my primary caretaker. So.

And how was that, having her at home?

She was wonderful.

Yeah.

Tell me about her.

Well, I'll tell you about my grandfather. He drilled me in, you know, so that I was ready to start school. So they, he drilled me on spelling and, and addition and subtraction. So I, you know, I, I was kind of educated at home before I started school. So I, you know, I always got pretty good grades. So math was the hardest for me. All, all those genes were given to my brother, I think. He was a math major. So.

When did you meet your husband?

Well, I think I knew him from almost the beginning of the time. That we were in America.

Why would, how was that?

Our families were, were friends. And I think they, they went over to Switzerland and met with the family and said that they would sponsor us.

That was Hen and Al Speier, but.

Yeah. Yeah.

But I think that there was maybe a distant familial relationship with the Gradwohl family.

Oh, yeah.

And, and you and David met when you were very young.

Yeah.

He was four and you were two.

Yeah. So, but he lived on the other side of town and though our families were friends, you know, he, he was two years older. And you know, he was dating actually some friends of mine before we really started dating.

Did you date before college or in high school?

Yeah, I think in high school already.

And where did you go to university?

University of Nebraska. and I, you know, I was, I, I think I was a good student and I was kind of popular. You know, I had friends and

I, I did a little bit of background research and, and we saw that you were involved in many activities and even, even on the homecoming court.

I was. Yeah.

So which activities did you like the best?

I don't remember.

That's fine. That's fine.

I don't.

Did you play an instrument or sing?

Yes. I, well, I did, I loved singing. And, and I did play the violin. I started violin lessons. I don't remember what age I was, but I played, I had a very good violin teacher and I was in orchestra. . .

At, at the university.

At the university for at least a couple of years and then decided I didn't have time for continuing music. So.

So if you didn't have time, what were you doing instead? Was there an honors group that you were involved in?

I was in college. I couldn't be in a sorority because I was Jewish. They didn't. You know, they didn't accept Jews. There was a Jewish sorority, but I was not at all interested in being in a Jewish sorority. So.

You were in Towne Club, right?

Yes. There was a, yes, that was my sorority was, was Towne Club.

And what did they do? What, what was the content of their club?

I don't, I don't remember. We had monthly meetings a week or, or,