Kitty Williams Survivor Testimony (Part V)

Tape 5 interview with Katherine Williams. You were telling me about being released from Allendorf and you were kind of in a forced march at that time.

Yes.

How long did that forced march last?

It was only a matter of days. I don't recall. You know most of us were liberated at different days, but it was only a matter of days that we were all liberated and it just depends on how far we wandered off from the from the group itself and as I told you our German group leader gave us an option to go wherever and so some of us probably wandered off 20-30 miles.

I remember passing a lot of Germans who were in the process of evacuation. Taking their belongings and you know moving away from the front so we try to walk opposite direction, but at the same time we we try to take cover. Slept in different barns. We went to German homes to ask for food and again, we got various reception some kindness, some treated us like you know, like we were from outer space. They had no idea who we were and I I suppose that that we were probably in in some danger but we I don't think we we thought about it our instinct led us you know like wherever we could find some food, pull up some turnips or whatever in the field and just watching the planes and listening to the to the weapons and hoping that it'd be it'd be soon and it was.

You were telling me that you worked in a house with several of the ladies that you were-

Oh, yes after.

When you were in this house how long did you remain there?

Only for a couple of days because the the American G.I.s who just showered us with everything imaginable. Food and chocolate and so forth. They were not stationed in that town there was a nearby town called Fritzlar. You want me spell it? F-R-I-T-Z-L-A-R that was was a an air base that was taken over by the Americans and they felt that we would be much safer so if you can imagine it seemed like it was 20 maybe 24 of us that were put in this were liberated together and put in this German home were trucked to this air base and given jobs, whatever we were qualified to do. Well, I had taken some courses in English so they thought I qualified because I think I knew num- I could count to 10 in English whatever the reason. Well, it was something like at first, I waited on tables and then in the mess hall and some of the people cleaned officers barracks and then later I picked up English really well and and and I also I had some background so in this it was a corresponding course that I took back home and so they needed somebody for the PBX and that's where I wound up working. Um, number please.

How long did you stay on that job?

And I a few months and meanwhile, I met my future husband who was a pilot stationed in Fritzlar and we fell in love and he did not want me to wanted to marry me actually and he did not want me to work so I quit my job and however we we could not get married I was still considered an well once they added me but alien and and also it was sort of unheard of you know for a for an American Air Force pilot to want to marry somebody fresh out of a concentration camp. Somehow they frowned on it and maybe looking back on it, maybe rightfully so. I don't know our backgrounds were very very different and all the odds were against the marriage to work but neither one of us wanted to give up and he was he was sent home ahead of time probably because we were we went to France trying to get married. We but them, you know, they would not recognize that is not would not send me to this country we tried everything. And he finally was sent home and then he sent for me as a civilian and brought me to this country.

Were you able to make an attempt during this period to locate your family?

Oh, of course, even more much before as soon as much before I met my husband that really came much later. As soon as that was the first thing everybody did, you know there was of course, no mail no no communication and just rumors and just people traveling whatever means of transportation that was available to locate relatives and even even then the first few weeks of my liberation of my working for the Americans. I remember for instance that we used to get rations just like the soldiers we were you know, we lived on this base we were put in in one building and it was guarded by an MP and only of like 24 women and and went you know went to work every day, but conditions weren't you know, really really great but I remember getting rations and I would eat everything but the sardines because that was my father's favorite food.

Can you imagine after all this? By then I was 20 years old and I was still thinking that had to be a miracle my father could not have been killed and so that one day I think I came home from work and somebody said there's somebody looking for you and it was my brother-in-law's brother and and you know, he found me and and he said my that he he was with his miraculously they survived they he and his brother from the family. This is the sister who lost her baby. And that they're in some DP camp by that time they established DP camps, you know what to do with the survivors and that my brother-in-law went back to Hungary to find his wife who was my sister, find other relatives and of course, you know, he told me some some of the stories. And that he wanted to go back to Hungary and for some reason I never want to go fucking Hungary. Never want to go back.

Was this the the sister that you left behind in Auschwitz?

No, this is yes this is the sister.

And what came of her? She survived living, she was in Auschwitz?

Yes, she if she wound up I think she was she was taken on a strange enough. She was taken with the transport almost the next day and it was taken from Auschwitz, but she didn't fare so good in spite of the fact that she wasn't and didn't stay in Auschwitz but she was she worked under some horrible horrible conditions. She worked in um coal mine and she tells me that when they when the Germans saw them they were so black that that they were through invaded by the Africans. I mean they looked that unrecognizable. And eventually when she was liberated, but she was half mad. I mean, you know mentally that when my brother-in-law went back She found her on the street sleeping on the street in this town with same dish that she had in in Auschwitz still carrying that using it as a pillow. She would not sleep on a bed and she she just laid on the actually on the street. It took a long time before she functioned normally.

Where did she finally settle?

She settled, she lives in spring Silver Spring, Maryland and she's still alive. She's widowed and raised her children by herself because her she eventually then had two other children But her husband died in the 60s very young and here he lives through Buchenwald is where he where he was with his brother and the only way they lived through they I mean everything that you ever read about it. It doesn't compare the stories that, you know, they told me my brother-in-law they actually ate human flesh to survive. I mean it is beyond anybody's imagination.

Can you tell me about the your other siblings?

It's then my next to my oldest sister then Betty now she is the one that located me in Germany. She was in Auschwitz which I skipped that but it's a you know I guess maybe they're I'm sorry I apologize to be skipping back and forth the the only you know importance of that is that she's the one that was taken from the train the the very first transfer to go from Hungary and she was taken to Auschwitz where she was actually, she was at that time she was considered like a political prisoner or something like that because she was given a number but her hair wasn't cut and they were put to work right away. They were put to work to sort clothes clothing of the people who were sent to the gas chambers, so she not only saw the gas chambers. She had many occasions, she said when she looked saw the bodies and wondered all her life. She would wonder how strong my dad was, you know, was he on the bottom was he because she said they they were you know, like a dome. They were climbing up on top of each other and you know thoughts like that. How, how that could happen in this century that people would be killed in such a way.

Where did she eventually settle?

So she stayed in in Auschwitz all this time once the the chimneys quit operating they were doing some some other work but you know the Germans didn't waste anything and while you know, they were murderers. They were to me. I hope no one, I don't offend anybody but they were also thieves and they they didn't waste any any material. So they were sorting through everything human hair or whatever that they can use and and you know send it to the fatherland to to use it has some good use and so she she stayed there and she was in the death march. And she just barely survived. Only through friends who again, you know bonded together and through joint efforts somehow she managed to to live and she did. Again, she didn't go back to Hungary. She she was liberated by the Russians as I recall and but somehow she she wanted to come to the American zone and to find her relatives and or her family. And she's the one that then located me. So, you know, there was a lot of internet communication through word word by mouth and somehow she found me she located me and she came and she she moved in. In fact we moved in that she moved in my room. And she also worked for the Americans. She also married an American. Fared much better than I did. She lives in Denver, she has three children, six dead children, but her husband died. Oh, I suppose it's six seven years ago and- that's her story-

You had just the two sisters then?

No, then I had another sis-God, you'll, this is going to last forever because I have such a large family. The next next to me old, next oldest, my sister Klara. She had an altogether different story then ours. She lived in Budapest. She and maybe I I made just a little reference to that that by the time the - First when the Germans came in they got rid of all the Jews in the country except the capital which was Budapest and and by the time they got to Budapest they were out of you know, they were losing the war. The Russians were coming in and they were really hurried so they ran out of railroad cars. And so they herded up all the Jews and they marched them toward Germany. That and she was in this march where you know, it was something like like the Death March of Auschwitz, very few people survived, and somebody offered to hide her. Her and a friend of hers and again, this girl would not go with her she said I am not going to I will take my chances and my my sister lived with this family. They they hid her. She had several close calls because this man introduced her as his wife's sister and you know the townspeople got suspicious. There were she had a lot of a lot of close calls, but eventually she lived through and this man this family more or less kept supported her she did because she is a very good seamstress and she sewed for the family and she did you know they had a lot of children and like she did the maid work and she earned her keep. But at any rate, she she's the one that did not go to to camp but she had her own story and not as gruesome maybe but

Is she in this country?

And she's also in this country. She lives in Ann Arbor, Michigan. She's also widowed and she has two boys and about five years ago, her, one of her son had triplets. But I throw that in because it's just just beautiful.

And do you have any other of the sisters beside the ones you've mentioned?

No.

How about your brothers?

My brothers I had two brothers who were like almost 20, 17 years older than I am from my father's first marriage. But of course, I never considered them half brothers even though they were because they were they were loving and brother best brothers anybody could ask for and and they were identical twins. Very talented, very musical and just just full of talent and the one died in, was blown to pieces by description of somebody that thought you know at the Russian front because what they did with the Jewish man in Hungary they took them to forced labor and they barely fed them, you had to wear your own clothes and they were the ones that were sent ahead of the German and and Hungarian army toward the Russian front to to look for the mines in the minefields or you know enough and most all of them were were killed. Hardly ever any lived, lived to tell this. I know to somebody who a man in my hometown who was in that unit on the Hungarian soldier, as a Hungarian soldier and he saw it happen.

My other brother he was more fortunate in the in the concentration camp part of of it. There were some groups, evidently Germans made some sort of a model camps in in Vienna, and I don't know if you know if I have ever seen this in any of the books History books or film that I've I have seen of the Holocaust but yhey did take quite a few families they lived as a family they they were even believe it or not be able to take their own furniture some of like beds and necessary furniture with them and in Vienna and they were given like apartments but in a sect- a separate section and it was somewhat like a ghetto, but but they were fairly free and and and of course he assumed that's what happened to all of us, but that was some kind of a study or some kind of a model for some you know some some foreign countries have something to see and to think that that's that's how they solved the Jewish problem.

And he survived the war in Vienna?

And he survived with his family and then he was married yeah he they live he was married and he lived with his mother mother-in-law lived with him and believe it or not. She was she had been bedridden for ever since I have known them probably ten years prior and and an older lady and she lived through. So you can imagine the treatment they must have had. They came back brought back by train and got back their own apartment and and it like almost like nothing happened it's like the way we were hoping that happening to everybody that they're just taking us out of Hungary to save us from the Hungarians.

Where did he eventually settle?

He settled in Israel and they had a daughter. But he died of a heart attack in some in the 60s. I don't remember the year and the daughter is married and has three children and one just got married last week and and I have contact with them. In fact, we brought her here for some wedding in the family and she has visited here in Iowa.

Do you stay in contact with your sisters?

Oh, yes. You should see my phone bill. Very much so. It's every weekend. My weekend is talking to my family it's because my children live live away also, so yes, I I support the telephone company.

Can you tell me about your children?

About my children. It's when you ask about the chil-who your children and when people say to you how many children did you have? It it almost stops me it it it hurts a lot because I had three children but I lost my older my oldest son. I had two sons and a daughter. I you know try to take a great pleasure of the ones I have and very grateful for it but I don't have to tell anyone who sees this tape what it is like to you to lose a 19 year old or any child. So it's it's a subject I I don't like because I have I have three children but only two is alive and it and it hurts and and I take it to my grave. It will always hurt it it doesn't really let up. I have learned to live with it and I function pretty well only when I don't sleep or you know, it's then it's it's like it happened yesterday. But my other two children I am I am very very grateful to have them and that that that I uuess it would make any difference how they you know, you your children how they turn out but I am I am rather proud of them and and I hope you don't mind if I mention it.

I was a single mother for almost 20 years and I raised them alone. My daughter was two years old when my husband left us and and I don't want to give you a sob story. I think the only reason I'm going to mention this because, because whoever sees this video, I want to say that that a lot of things are possible for us to do in life and a lot of it is your choice and while I made bad choices in my life that I you know, I had to deal with I you know looking back on it I still don't know how practically abandoned in the middle of America not really knowing the language that well not having the education I I have raised my children by myself.

I did not go on welfare, you know, I never felt and I don't want to make myself sound like I'm a hero but I just want to say it's possible you you know, you have to work hard but it's nobody's fault that that I had three children I can't make the rest rest of the people pay for it it's it's my responsibility and and I'm sure that they you know, they didn't have a very good childhood I tried to provide whatever I could I was very limited but you know we managed and and I was so fortunate that both of my children got free scholarships and so I while I worried about their education because this is one thing I wanted to make sure that they will have education that I feel, you know, that's that's the only tool you have and and I couldn't see how I could possibly afford college for them, but they both received unbelievable scholarships my son to Yale and not only did they pay completely his away, but they would give him money for trips to come home on Christmas or in the summer because in the summer he worked and and you know earn some spending money but my daughter got a scholarship to Cornell College. That's in Iowa and it's it's one of the I think a very good private college and again, she got all everything paid plus she got a job right away in the kitchen so she can have spending money so I don't know whether it's you know, it's it pays to be poor sometimes

But at any rate, I feel the country has been good to me it's it's it just somehow or other I I made it through it I remember going for what you tell me when when to stop that you know, I had to go to work after yeah, I mean there were some you know gruesome details but I don't want to go into that and it's not relevant to to this story at all. But I remember going looking for a job and then somehow or other being a bank teller always appeal to me for some reason And I went into a bank and I remember I I didn't know the English alphabet. And taking my two-year-old for the app applying for the job. My boys were in school and and and I said to this man they interviewed me that my this little girl was climbing all over and I said, but I will get a babysitter if you just hire me. I need a job. I won't bring her to work, you know and he hired me.