Kitty Williams Survivor Testimony (Part VI)

Six interview with Katherine Williams. You were starting to tell me that you became an employee at the bank, and did you progress in that job?

Yes, yes I did. First of all, I really liked working in a bank. And although the pay wasn't the best, I managed to live on it. I eventually bought a little house and, you know, raised my children. And as time went on, I don't really know why that I was I was picked to for advancement. I was always, had a curious mind. I like to read and, you know, look into things. And I used to go to night school. Of course, I had to take typing lessons and eventually went to a lot of banking courses at night. And so eventually I was picked to train, I started out as a teller, and I was picked to train the tellers. Eventually that, you know, gradually I was advanced to, I was named Vice President and became what they would call now, like a financial advisor. Except I'm really, I don't feel I'm really qualified, but people, especially older people, seem to listen to me or I like people, I guess is where it all starts. And I must have been discovered that by my bosses, that people, you know, evidently liked me as well. So I was offered opportunity to take life insurance class and health insurance class and became a well, it's a licensed insurance salesperson, I guess it would be.

This was when the banking industry became very diversified and they needed to compete with, you know, other institutions and offer other alternatives besides bank CDs, certificates of deposit. So I, in between, I was also named customer relationship officer, it's a long word, but that was my title for a while. I used to call on customers, go to their homes, take them to lunch, generally represent the bank, sort of like a goodwill ambassador. And, you know, looking back, I wound up as actually in the investment department where I retired from in 1990 because the bank was bought out and, you know, the old, I probably wouldn't have retired because they were hoping or expressed that I will stay on. Because I think the secret to all of it, as far as I'm concerned, is that I was never afraid of hard work. And I would I would do any kind of a job if it would help the company. I'm very loyal and I think that, you know, I was rewarded or recognized. But, you know, I, a new company bought out the bank that I was working for and then that's the time that I took retirement.

And since your retirement, have you had a chance to return to Europe?

Yes, actually, I went back in 1991. It's it was due to the fact that I got some correspondence from Germany, from the town where the labor camp was located in Allendorf, Germany. And that's near Fristla, Frankfurt, excuse me, which I mean, everybody would be familiar with the location if I, I think if I mentioned Frankfurt. And the mayor sent me a letter inviting me to a reunion that it's in the planning for the thousand Hungarian Jewish prisoners that were in their vicinity. And, of course, it took probably a year of correspondence and so forth, but it did materialize in October of '91 and it was absolutely unbelievable. I still, it's like a dream.

Not so much, you know, that they helped us financially, although it was a very small portion of it. I believe that like they gave us $500 toward the trip and, of course, free hotel and lodging and free meals while the reunion was in session. It's just, it was just the most fantastic thing that, to me, that can happen, that the German people in this town not only would admit what happened during the war, but would be curious enough to wanting to meet the people that it happened to, to have us tell our stories. And to find out what they were saying is that their parents and grandparents, they're in denial. They don't want to talk about it and they want to know really what happened. And so, somehow or other, they don't, just, I don't know what kind of a means, mostly through Hungarian people that they were in contact with, that, were in contact with, got our names or our addresses, but they found, I don't recall the number, how many they found. There were a thousand of us but 333 of the original women came to the reunion, which is, I think, pretty fantastic considering that I was fairly young at that time that I was with people who are who were in their 40s.

Were these mostly Hungarian women?

They were all Hungarian women.

And had they come back to Germany from all over the world?

From all over. We had people from literally all over, from Australia, I think every continent, we had some from Africa.

What was the reaction of the German people when you were able to tell them your story?

I have never had a reception that, or we, actually, I took my husband and my two children back with me. And we traveled back in history and actually, and we did not answer directly to your question, I guess, because we went back to where I was born and we followed the route, the route, we rented a car and followed the route exactly how I was taken to Auschwitz. And then to Allendorf, probably the same highway that we used. In fact, it actually took me back completely to the 50 years because every time my children would ask me something, if I remembered going to Auschwitz, for instance, what do I remember? Or, you know, would have a question. And you probably would not believe this, but I would think, I would say, oh, I have to ask my dad. Because it was just like I was reliving it, like he was right there with me, you know, step by step. And that it was a shock to realize that this is, this is now.

How was the German people, did they react to you?

To your question is, I'm sorry that I took a roundabout way here. Again, either we met the right people, the people who were interested interested in putting on this reunion. I don't know what to think because I never thought that I would say what I'm going to say about the Germans. That I looked in their eyes and there were tears when they talked to us. The townspeople provided the meals. They even had a kosher table. Can you believe that? They had the, you know, the best of everything that they could do, entertainment and you name it. Of everything provided, the speeches, the people that they brought in, a rabbi. I just can't tell you the extent they went and the sorry they felt for what their fathers and grandfathers did to us. And I got acquainted with a young man who was, well it was actually several people. But this young man in particular who, well sort of everybody had, or each family had, almost like a personal representative of the German people. He was a writer, very well educated, a young man. And he was writing a book on Jewish people in this town. And uh he and there were only two people, two old ladies by that time that came back to this town. And he wanted to write it before they died. They're gone now, but this was, the book is already, I think, was already published at that time we were there. And because he was so puzzled as to, you know, what happened, like he would, they would drive us around this and this was a Jewish pharmacy, this was, you know, Jewish people lived here and so forth. And to think that at least, like I said, this, the people I met, they just went out of their way.

You know, you'd be kind of like, it wasn't 333 people, that was just the original inmates. But their families, like, you know, there were four of us and many of them brought their families. And to sort of, in this town, I mean, we were, you know, we took over the streets practically, there were so many of us, it's a fairly small town. And the reception we got from merchants, from everywhere, it's unbelievable. And I still correspond with some, or at least Christmas sends Christmas cards of a couple German people I met. One was a high school principal and member of the Green Party and they just, you know, couldn't say enough as to, as to, you know, how sorry they were.

Did you, on this trip, were you able to go back to your hometown in Hungary?

Yes, actually, we started in my hometown. That's where we landed.

How was your reception when you went back there?

Actually, they were very curious about me and they, I'm sure that nobody would recognize me, but if I hadn't introduced myself. But I remember the first time I went back and I had lost a lot of weight for the trip, actually. And people were greeting me, you know, gosh, you've changed so much, you lost weight, you know, which I loved. And I have the contact lens and I said, and what happened to you, you know, you used to wear glasses when you were little and, you know, and they never heard of contact lens. And then they tried to translate it into Hungarian, which is impossible. So it was a riot. The ones I met, they were, you know, very friendly and however, I really didn't stay that long to find out any how the feeling is.

And I do know that of all countries in Hungary, I mean in Europe, probably Hungary is the most populated by Jews. I mean more Jewish people in Hungary probably than the rest of the Europe. So, you know, I wasn't greeted that "too bad you came back" like you hear in Poland, at least they were more, maybe they're more civilized. I I had visited some synagogues in Budapest and it's the numbers when I say that it's most more populated by Jews than most other countries in Europe. It's still when I look back that the whole population of Jewish populations like 5,000, when you think about that 600,000 died and there were probably over a million that scattered all over, you know, 5,000 is a very, very small number. There are virtually no Jewish people in the country. That is aside from Budapest or some large cities. So that tells you something, that nobody wanted to go back to that life that we had.

Mrs. Williams, can you introduce this young lady?

Yes, she's my daughter, Pamela Peters, we call her Pam, and I hope I don't sound too corny, but she's the love of my life.

I'm sure she is.

As my son, as well as my son, who is not here today.

Pam, can you tell me something about how it's been like to grow up as the child of a survivor?

Well, I think in some ways it makes you feel different than most people, a little apart from people. Maybe in some ways a little special, you know, that you're the daughter of someone who's gone through something as horrible as that and has survived and has come to this country and made a life for herself. So I think in those ways you feel different from most people.

Has it affected your life to any extent?

Well, I think about that a lot. I sometimes think that what my mother went through and my wanting to know as much as possible about it has affected what I chose to do in my life. I'm a defense attorney, and I feel that it's made me think more about people who are subject to intolerance or prejudice, and I want to defend them and reach out to them. So I think in that way it probably has affected my life.

Mrs. Williams, if you can leave one message for your children and your grandchild, what would that message be in view of all that you've endured in your life?

I just hope that young people will be open-minded and will, for instance, I hope that many of them will view some of the videos, that sort of a legacy that the survivors left. And because I feel that only through education that you can avoid future Holocaust. That if they're well-informed and they have tolerance or prejudice, if they don't have any prejudice toward people, that this could never happen. Which is still its beyond me how it could happen in this century, that factories were built just for the sole purpose of killing people so brutally and so systematically. And I want them to remember, and I think you can only achieve it through education. I I only I only feel, or it is still unbelievable and inconceivable to me, that I was picked to live amongst all the people. And I just, I don't know, I'm really choked up at this point because my next sentence is going to be that I would like to dedicate this video to all the millions that were killed, but mostly to my dad, who didn't have a chance to tell his story.

Mrs. Williams, and to you, Pam, on behalf of the survivors of the Shoah Visual History Foundation, I want to thank both of you for allowing us to come into your home and to listen to this most important contribution. Thank you.

Thank you. I, can I add to that that my children been wanting me to do this, tell my story on video, I think, all their lives. And I'm glad that the Shoah gave me an opportunity to do it because I probably would not have gotten around to it.

Mrs. Williams, can you tell me about this photograph?

Yes, this is the train station of the little town in Hungary where I was born named Sarand.

Was this taken on your trip in 1991?

Yes, it was, and it has not changed at all since my school days. This is the station where I took the train from to go to high school from my town.

Can you tell me about this photograph?

Yes, they're my parents. They were married, and I'm not, I can't remember the name of the town, but the year was 1911.

Can you tell me about this photograph?

Yes, this is my father and was taken during World War I. He served in the Austrian-Hungarian Army for four years, and he was wounded several times and was taken prisoner. I don't remember now what country, but he was highly decorated and was, until practically the last minute, was always exception to all the Jewish laws that they enacted in the years.

Can you tell me about this photograph?

Yes, I remember very well. I was about eight years old, and my I'm in front of the picture with the apron on, and my father is to my right, and my oldest sister, who was engaged to this young man and eventually married, were visiting us at our farm. We had horses, and that's when it was taken. It- I must have been probably 1936 or so.

How did you get this picture?

I had several pictures, and some of my mother's jewelry. I left it with a friend who, not only that that saved all the pictures, but also saved the jewelry. And when- She was an older lady, and when my one of my sisters went home, and she sent them a message that, I have something for you from Kitty. When my sister arrived, she- this lady took out her overcoat and her heavy coat, and she ripped the hem, and she took out my mother's gold chain and several other pieces, a ring of mine and some earrings. And that's where she carried it all through the years in her in her coat and saved it for us, and I'm sure never thought of ever keeping taking anything, even if she was starved. She made a promise to me that she will keep it for me, and she did.

Can you tell me about this photograph?

Yes, I was about 10 years old when this was taken. I remember vividly, and it was my first passport picture, and my mother was going to travel overseas, not overseas, but to a different country. However, I never made it, but that was the picture.

Was this also one of the pictures that was saved by this lady?

Yes. All my, all the pictures, of course, since my home was completely destroyed, or our home, I don't have anything from the past except a few pictures and this chain and a few pieces of jewelry that we divided amongst my siblings. That's the only thing that's left from the past.

Can you tell me about this photograph?

This photograph has really a lot of meaning to all of us because this is a copy of a picture that my dad carried in his pocket when he was taken to Auschwitz. This is a wedding picture of my of one of my sisters, next to the oldest, and someone else sorting through the clothing, someone found this picture who knew my sister or worked with my sister in Auschwitz in sorting clothes in a place called Kanada ('Canada'), and brought it to her and said, this looks like you. Could it be you? And that's when my sister knew that that was the day that my dad was killed.

Can you tell me who this is in this photograph?

Yes. This is my son, Mark Peters, and my granddaughter, his daughter, Amanda Peters. She is age 10, I believe, when this was taken.

Can you tell me about this grave marker?

Yes. This is of my mother's grave. She died in 1932, and when we went back for a visit to Hungary, we had the stone restored and also had my father's name put on since he doesn't have a grave.

Where is this cemetery located?

It is located in Debrecen, about 13 miles from the little town I lived in, and this is where there was a pretty large Jewish population, and she died in the hospital there, and also in Hungary, I mean in Charon, they did not have a Jewish cemetery.

Can you tell me about this document?

Yes. This is a copy of the original list of thousand Hungarian Jewish women that were sent from Auschwitz to Allendorf in West Germany. The reason that I have it, I had no idea of its existence until we went to the reunion that I mentioned in the video before, in '91, and this is when we were presented this copy of the original, which was a result of the German people in the town, who were curious enough to find out who we were, where we came from, found the document.

And this has your Auschwitz number on there?

Yes, it does have. Yes, it has. They were very, very thorough. The Germans were, I remember, when we were leaving Auschwitz, we were asked our birth date, our hometown, our occupation, and we were given a number. I recall it, like it happened yesterday, that the Germans, excuse me, they were Hungarian typists who were typing it.