Gretl Wald Shoah Foundation Testimony

There's a... surprising that those haven't all gone south. It was so cold yesterday.

I don't think they go.

No, these I think stay here.

I don't think so. But usually, at least they're not that loud. I don't know. They probably complain because it's so cold.

How many children do you have?

Three.

Three.

All daughters, all married.

Oh, really?

All living in Scottsdale, Arizona.

The same place, please.

January 19, 1996, interviewing the survivor Gretel Wald, W-A-L-D. My name is Ben Nachman, N-A-C-H-M-A-N, Lincoln, Nebraska, Language English. Can you give us your name, please?

Gretel Wald.

And how do you spell your last name?

W-A-L-D.

And can you give me your maiden name?

Rothschild.

And how do you spell that?

R-O-T-H-S-C-H-I-L-D.

And when were you born?

When?

Yes.

Yeah, in September 17, 1913.

And where were you born?

I was born in Öhringen. It's in Württemberg, southern Germany.

And how do you spell the name of the city you were born in?

W-Ü, -Ü-E-T-T-E-M-B-E-R-G.

Can you tell me your age, Mrs. Wald?

82. That I don't like.

Can you tell me about the city you were born in?

I was born in Öhringen.

And how large a city was that?

Oh, about 5,000 people.

How many Jewish people lived there at that time?

We had at least 75 families.

Was it an active Jewish community?

Very. My father was a president of it.

Of the Jewish community?

Of the Jewish community.

Did you have just one synagogue in the town?

Yeah.

And did your family attend the synagogue often?

Yes.

Did you attend on the Sabbath?

No, I didn't. My parents did.

And how about on holidays? Did you attend on holidays?

Yes, I did.

Did you have any religious education?

Oh, yes.

Can you describe that for me, please?

Yeah, we had school twice a week. If I remember correctly, it was Wednesday and Sunday. We had another lesson.

These were Hebrew lessons?

Hebrew yeah.

Was this following your normal schooling?

I can't quite understand how you mean that.

Did you attend the Hebrew school after you had gone to your public school?

Yeah. Usually, after the public school was over, we had the Hebrew school.

And you attended public school in Öhringen?

In Lincoln.

Yes, you did.

Yeah. Not Lincoln. In Öhringen.

Öhringen.

I'm sorry.

And how far did you attend school? How long were you in school?

Regular school, how long? I had high school.

You finished high school?

Finished high school.

Did you go to school beyond that?

I went to a business school.

Also in the same city?

Yes.

What did you study in the business school?

Oh, typing and keeping books and whatever you do in a business, you know.

What kind of work did your father do?

My father, we... he was... we were trading wheat and buying flours and grains. And my dad sold it to bakers and some other people wanted it.

Did he actually buy and keep this grain or was it?

Yes. We had a big place where we stored it.

And how did you ship the grain?

We had one big wagon with two horses. It's a very heavy wagon.

Did you deliver the grain long distances?

Yes, we did, yeah. But mostly it was in Württemberg, where I was born, you know.

In this town that you lived in, can you describe your home for me?

It was so long ago. We had our office downstairs. Then we had a first floor with a living room and a dining room and a bedroom. And then upstairs, the same thing. And then we had another floor. We had a girl working for us. She had a room upstairs. And then we had an attic. It was a big house.

Did it have a lot of land with the house?

No, nothing. It was in the city, we didn't have it there. We had a big garden, but we had to go across the street. Then go down a little bit, you know, down the street.

What kind of heating did you have in this house?

Ovens, plain ovens, that we heat with coal and wood.

Were these located on each floor of the house?

On each floor, yeah.

And did you have plumbing?

Yes, sure.

Also indoor plumbing?

Yes.

And what kind of life did you have in this town?

Very nice.

You lived well?

Yeah. Everybody knew us, you know. See, my dad was born in Öhringen. So it was a very nice living for a while.

Did you have a lot of Jewish friends?

Yes.

Did you also have friendships with the non-Jewish?

Oh, yes. It's the same thing.

Relationships were good.

Very good.

Got along well with all your neighbors.

Oh, yes.

Had your father's family been in this city for a lot of years?

Yes. My dad was born in that house.

So the house did belong to the family for quite some time?

For quite some time.

How many brothers and sisters did you have?

I had one sister.

Just one sister. She older or younger?

She's younger.

She's younger. Did she also attend the same schools?

I don't think she went to a business school. She went to regular school, and I don't know what else to tell you.

During the Jewish holidays, did you have normal holiday meals with the family?

Yes.

Did you have an extended family that came to these occasions?

Yes.

Can you tell me who they were?

Well, they were brothers and sisters of my father and mother, you know.

Did they live in the same town?

No.

They would travel to your home?

Yes. In fact, we always had company they called us Hotel Rothschild, because we always had people.

Did you do any traveling outside of your town?

Oh, yes.

Where did you travel to?

Well, I went to Frankfurt. I had relatives there, and I went to Nuremberg. I had relatives there, too.

How did you get around in your travel?

With a train.

With a train?

Mm-hmm.

And the relationships with the family and with the neighbors was all very good at that time.

Very good, yeah.

No problems? In growing up, then, did you take a job in the field you were trained in?

No, I worked for my dad. He had an office.

And what was your job at the office?

Oh, well, typing. And I never was very good in keeping books. I tried not to have to do it. But my dad had somebody else working there. So, it was all right.

Was your mother also from this area?

She was from, I think... I don't even know where it was. She comes from Niederstetten. That's where she's born.

Is that far away from...

No, nothing was far.

And how did your mother and father meet?

I I, they probably were introduced, if I remember correctly.

Did the synagogue in the town have a rabbi, a full-time rabbi?

He wasn't a real rabbi. He was a teacher, I would say, because he taught the children, too. And he did the service, and I think... I don't think we had a rabbi, ever.

This was a full-time job for him?

Yeah, yes.

In growing up, then, did you do any other traveling other than to just visit relatives as a family?

Yeah, I'm just thinking. No, mostly we went, when there was vacation, my sister and I. And my parents, once they... I had relatives in Offenburg, and this is just so close... You go to Switzerland from there. And my parents went, and they left us with the relatives in Offenburg. Yeah, that's about it.

How were economic conditions for you during this period?

Very good.

Family made a nice living?

Yes, very nice.

And was your mother strictly a housewife?

Well, we had help all the time, but she did some things, yeah. But we had a maid, we had her for 25 years. And sometimes she didn't want my mother to come in the kitchen. She wanted to do alone everything, you know.

So... What did your mother do to occupy herself?

Well, she did a lot of sewing and handiwork, and I really don't know, but to me, she was never sitting, really, you know. She did a lot of sewing, knitting, things like that.

How would you describe your growing up years, your young years in Germany?

It was very nice until my mother died. I was only 17 when she died. My sister was 11, so I actually brought up my sister, because my dad was, I think you would say today nervous breakdown. I wouldn't- I didn't let him go out of the house by himself. I always went after him, because I was worried he might do some things.

Was this brought on by the death of your mother?

Yeah, see, my mother was only 43, and my dad at that time was 59, so it was 16 years apart.

What did she die from?

She had her leg amputated, she had a blood clot.

And died during surgery?

No, she was about a week, alive.

Did you help with the household at that time?

A little bit, we helped. But we had a woman who came in for washing and stuff like that. So I had to help when we did the cleaning and everything, so I learned, you know. My mother always wanted me to help, you know.

Do you remember what year this was?

What?

At the time of your mother's death?

No, she was, she died. But I think I have it written down, don't I? It's in that book, yeah.

When did you notice things starting to change in Germany?

Well, when Hitler came into Germany, so to speak, you know.

Did you notice a change in the people in your town?

Not too bad. When he really came into office, then I felt it.

By your neighbors?

By everybody, we had some real good neighbors still. When Hitler came, they brought us food over at night, you know. But some of them wouldn't even say hello anymore. Children spit at you when you went across the street. We had to close our, we had, not the windows, what you have in front of the windows outside, but I can't think of it, what you call it.

Shutters?

Something like it, yeah, yeah.

Did this affect your father's business at this time?

Not in the beginning, really, but afterwards he gave it up, you know.

Did he close the business?

Yeah.

Was not able to sell it?

No. He didn't try to sell it. It was with the house. It was in the house, you know, downstairs.

As the war progressed, or as Hitler was in power, can you describe what happened to your family then? Did you start to leave as part of the country?

Well, my dad was picked up with about ten other men and was put into jail.

Do you remember when this was?

No, I can't remember. I don't remember.

Was this before Kristallnacht?

It was before Kristallnacht, yeah.

And why did they pick him up?

Because they picked up ten or twelve Jewish men, and my dad was a president of the congregation, so naturally they picked him up, you know.

Where did they take him?

Jail.

And how long was he in jail?

He was in jail a few hours, because later on in the evening my sister and I visited him and brought him a few things, for example, his prayerbook and pajama. And a, the jail warden, when he saw it he wanted to know our name. And he says, well, your father can go home with you. And he was the only one of all those men who was sent home. The others, I never knew, I never knew where they sent them. None of them came back.

But your father was permitted to come home.

Yeah, and I still, I also see why he came home, why they let him go, see. It was like a mirracle, because all the others were gone.

When he came home, how were conditions?

In the meantime, my uncle left, because my dad and my uncle had the business together, and he was in the house, and he took a, oh, where you ride with, I can't think of the name now, a bicycle, excuse me, a bicycle, and went to a sister, sister-in-law. He went a few stations where there is a train, and then he left the bicycle and went to the sister-in-law, and there were two other men hiding. She's a widow. She was, yeah, she was the sister of his wife.

And she was hiding him?

Yeah, and two other men.

Where was this that this took place?

Stuttgart.

Were they able to survive the war?

Yeah, in the meantime, we got him, you know, I was still there. It was about in '39 when I left, and my uncle came about, and his wife came about a year later. So it must be 1940, because I left in '39.

Well, did your father, was he able to leave with you when you left Germany?

My father went after my uncle, because the man who gave us papers and everything, he wanted a letter that my dad takes care of himself, that he wouldn't, that the country's government doesn't have to take care of him. And that man didn't want to give it to me because he was worried, you know, that my dad might take advantage of him. So I went there. I lived in New York then, and I flew there to meet some men, talk to him.

When were you first trying to get out of Germany?

When? Oh, I tried maybe in 1946 or so. I kept on writing until he was, in fact, he sent me a letter, he said, so he could get rid of me with my writing. He sent me his affidavit and everything. See, I didn't need that special letter, because my dad was pretty old, and they were worried, you know.

What year was this that you were able to leave Germany?

39.

1939. Can you tell me about how conditions were after your father had given up his business until you were able to leave Germany?

Well, we were pretty worried to go out of the house. When I got my papers to go, I went, you know.

Can you recall when the Nuremberg laws were put into effect, how they affected you, the changes and... ?

Yeah, we couldn't have meet any more, who is not Jewish. And, you know, I don't quite know, but, well we were scared, very scared, and we waited for our papers to be able to go.

How were you able to maintain a livelihood during that period?

Some neighbors brought us food at night, when it was dark.

Were you able to sell any possessions?

No, we just left. No, my father packed some furniture and things, but we never got them, because the German government, they... they took it, you know.

What happened to your household items?

Well, we don't have anything. We all left it.

Were you able to sell the house?

Yes, but we got so little for it, it was ridiculous.

Were you forced to sell the house?

Yes, we sold the house. But we wanted to, since we left, since we went to this country, so...

Were you the first of your family to leave?

Yes, I was the first.

And you were able to leave in what year?

In '39.

And how were you able to leave?

I got my affidavit from a... I think he was a cousin of my dad's, but not... We didn't have that much to do with him. He lived in Germany. In, excuse me, in this country, and once a year he came visiting. They always looked us up, but they had closer relatives. My dad was a distant cousin, I would say.

Can you describe your trip from the time you left home until you came to this country?

Well, I went on the ship, and I came here and a friend picked me up. And I went to her house. She was married. I went for three weeks til I had a job.

Where was this?

I took care of two little girls, a nanny, they say.

Where was this located?

It was in New York. It's very fancy. I... Fifth Ave. or something like that. It wasn't Fifth Ave. but I can't think of it.

Were these relatives?

No. They never knew me, and I spoke very little English. That's why I went to see little girls, because they don't talk as much. We learned it fast, you see. They were very nice. He was a doctor.

And how long did you stay with them?

I stayed til it got so bad in Germany that I wanted to go to somebody. He was a very distant relative. He got the ticket and everything, for my dad. I gave him some money. He didn't get it on himself. And then where was I. Where was I, I was at those people, doctors. He said, in the meantime, I went to, had to get another job. I went to three ladies. A mother with a divorced daughter and another one was a widow. They were very, very nice. They actually helped me to make up my mind to go to Rochester, New York as well, where many lived, who sent part of my dad's things that he needs to immigrate. But the main papers, he didn't send them. He was worried that my dad might ask him for money or something, because the government didn't want to take them either, you know. So they helped, they talked me into going to Rochester and meet some men, and I did. I walked in the office, there was a girl sitting there. I didn't want to talk to her, you know. I wanted to see the man. I didn't want her to tell me, no, I can't see him. So I went in, and I introduced myself, so he said, and for this you make that long trip. I said, yeah, because my father and sister are going to be killed or who knows what, and I need that paper. So he says, okay, I send it to you. I said, no, I won't leave until I have the paper. So he said, well, I need a lawyer, you know, who, when you sign the things. What is the name of that?

Notary public.

Notary public, yeah. So he called notary public, and I got the paper, and I mailed it in Rochester before I went home, and my father and sister got to go a few days later. They didn't even go home anymore. They stayed in Stuttgart there, there's a place where they give you things, travel things, you know. And then they went from Rochester, from Stuttgart, they went direct to here.

Did your sister travel with your father at this time?

My sister had no problem, because she was young, you know, they were on board. So yes, they came about a year after my- me.

During that year, did you hear from them very often?

Yes, I heard, yeah.

Did they describe how things were in Germany at that time?

I don't think they would put it in the letter, because they opened the things, you know, in Germany.

Did they ever tell you that any of your letters were censored?

No. I think they got my letters, probably.

How was your father and your sister able to survive as far as taking care of themselves? Feeding themselves, and so on.

Well, like I told you, so many of the neighbors brought food in, and some things they could buy. But they rather didn't go in the store, you know. But we were lucky that since they let my dad go, which is, I can't understand, and I never knew why. But he had a lot of people who were very, he was very good friends with Bürgermeister, we called it, in Germany. It's the one who had the biggest job in town, you know, that he might have, people like this might have done it. But we never knew how. The main thing was he could go, they let him go.

Who did he live with in Stetten?

He wasn't in Stetten. No, he went to Stuttgart. This is where he got his papers and everything. This is where we all had to go for our papers and all the things that are involved.

Mrs. Wald, you say your father was in Stuttgart prior to coming to this country, and who was he living with?

That's correct. They lived in a hotel.

Did he have funds enough to keep them?

I suppose so.

With your sister?

Yes.

How long were they there before they were able to leave for this country?

They came a year later than I did. I came in '39, and they came in '40.

Did they ever express to you how things changed once World War II actually began, with the invasion of Poland?

Well, yeah, but like I told you before, they didn't write too much, and probably not talk on the telephone either, because they always listened in, you know, watched every step you took.

And when they came to this country, they came with nothing?

They had packed all their things in a van, and they were told if they all write there, then he can ask, write for them. But he never got anything. When we wrote after the war was over, they said they... got rid, the government got rid of it. It wasn't there anymore, you know.

And when did your sister and your father arrive in this country?

They must have been, I don't remember, about a year later. I don't know, was it... I came here in April, so they probably came here in April or May or something like it. I really don't know.

And then your father, you say, was sponsored by this cousin?

No, by the friend of that cousin.

The one who you went to see in Rochester?

Yeah, because the cousin didn't send it to him. The friend did, his friend. And the cousin only sent it to me, because, like I said before, he was afraid that my dad needs the government or him. But, of course, it wasn't that way.

How were you able to find this friend?

Through that cousin, yeah.

Was your cousin unwilling to...

No, he was very nice, as long as he didn't do it anymore, you know. He wanted it to happen. And... that man who gave him every day with him everything he had, he was a very well-to-do man. He had a big department store where he lived. And he gave quite a few affidavits too, you know. But this was my dad, because he was afraid he might approach him that he needs money to live. But my sister and I, we both worked. And my dad, you know what he did? He did... Oh, now I can't think of it again. You know when we didn't have... What do you call this were you close your things with?

Zipper?

Zippers. They didn't have new ones anymore, so my dad cleaned them, the old zippers, because they didn't have them anymore in Germany. So that's what he did. He stayed til 9:30, 3 o'clock in the morning. And when we came home, we still helped, my sister and I, see?

When your father and your sister arrived in this country, where did they go to live?

I think I rented an apartment for them.

And the three of you stayed there?

The three of them stayed there, yeah. Very small apartment.

This was also in New York?

It was in New York, yeah.

And how long were you together before your sister and your father were able to find work?

Oh, my sister found work real fast. My dad did it at home, that cleaning of the zippers.

What kind of work did your sister do?

My sister worked as a cook or something in a house.

Did you leave any relatives behind in Germany after your father and sister had arrived?

All other relatives died. The uncles and cousins and everything, they were all killed.

During the war?

During the war, just a few got out, but most of them didn't.

Did any family member survive the war?

In Germany?

Yes.

No, I don't think so.

And how long did you stay in New York then?

I stayed about three weeks until I had a job with the children. And then I lived there, you know. I did everything with the children, that's all I did. I dressed them, I ate with them, I took them to the park, but that's what I did.

Then when your father and your sister were here, how long did you stay together?

You mean live together?

Yes.

Until I got engaged.

And where did you meet your husband?

Where I meet, meet my husband? I met him at a dance at New Year's Eve. We had a dance, lots of people, you know. And I went with a different man, and my husband was on a different table, and he asked me to dance. And that's what I did. And then we talked, and two weeks later he went to Lincoln. He had already his ticket and everything, and we corresponded for three, four years. And then he wanted me to come to Lincoln because he wasn't allowed to travel. They considered him an enemy alien, you know, people who didn't live here, honored members. So when I didn't go, I felt if he can't come to me, it's too bad. I just didn't want to go after him.

Where was your husband from?

My husband came from Saxony. Not far from Dresden.

In Germany? And when did he come to this country?

He came a month before I did.

And when you met him at New Year's Eve, was it a group of people that were recent immigrants to this country?

Mostly, yeah.

Speaking German, possibly.

Yeah, probably.

And your husband was in Lincoln, Nebraska, how long before you married?

It was a few years because he went to Casper, Wyoming. They sent him here to take care of the office there, you know.

What kind of work was he doing?

My husband was a CPA.

And the firm he was with sent him to Casper, Wyoming?

Yeah. The firm here sent him to Casper to hold the place, so to speak.

And how long was he in Casper?

We were three or four years and then my husband decided he wanted to take a CPA examination. But he had to go to university for a while in order to, you know, learn the things that he needs. So he went a year. And my husband had a doctor's degree from Germany. And he said he doesn't want a degree. All he wants is a few hours that he needs to pass the examination. So he, yeah, so he had it after a year. And they gave him a bachelor's degree, which he really didn't need, you know. But they were very, very helpful. This is why I am all for the university here. And my two boys went there.

At the University of Nebraska?

Yeah, yeah. And then later, one became a doctor to go to, couldn't do it here. He went to Omaha. And my other son, he went to Washington University in St. Louis.

When did you and your husband marry?

When did we marry. I was 27 when I got married.

And you said he was here, what, three years before you got married?

About.

And he came back to see you then in New York?

Yeah, as soon as they, he had to go to the army, see. And then he could travel, you know, because he got, I don't remember now, he had to, he got his citizenship papers. But I don't remember when it was. But I got it in a few years earlier than I normally would have gotten it because my husband had it. But he only got it when he went in the army. My husband was in the war.

When he was in the army, were you married at that time? Or did you marry after this?

No, we married before.

Before he went into the army?

Shortly before he went, yeah.

You were telling me that he was unable to travel to New York and he wanted you to come to Lincoln?

Because they considered him first as an enemy alien, you know. But then when he got the letter from the President that he's supposed to go into the army, then he was all right, you know. And then when he came to visit me, because he could travel.

That's when you decided to get married.

Yeah, and then we got engaged a week later, another week later, we got married.

In New York?

Yeah.

Your father and your sister were still with you at this time?

Yes.

Then you moved back to Lincoln, Nebraska?

Yeah.

Where did your sister go?

My sister stayed in New York.

She stayed in New York? Did she marry?

Yeah.

Is she still living in New York?

No, now she lives in Long Island someplace.

And what did your father do?

I told you he had flour and grains.

No, I mean, what did he do after, from New York?

Oh, he moved to my sister, in with my sister. But he only lived there a few weeks, and then he had a stroke. And he was paralyzed for three and a half years. He was in the hospital all this time. And then he died.

And you were living in Omaha, in Lincoln, I mean.

I visited him a few times, and every time I stayed about six weeks, because he was in the hospital. He wasn't at home. So he couldn't talk. He couldn't walk. He was in bed all the years. Yeah. I don't even think he knew anymore. I think it affected his thinking, you know.

Did your husband, when he was in the service, did he go overseas?

Yes.

Where did he go?

Germany.

He did. And what was his job in the service?

To look, to find, tell him about some things, where things are and everything. He went to California, to a special school. It's a very famous school. University I can't think of its name, of the name.

And was he in Germany while the war was still on?

Yes.

Was he able to go to his home during this period?

Yes. I think he did. And he was worried that people might recognize him, you know, because after all, but he got through, and I think he was a big help. First of all, he spoke the language fluently. Without an accent, you know. And then he went to school about for six months in, I can't think of it, very, very well-known school there.

In Germany?

No, in here, in this country, to train those men who went to Germany, you know.

And when did he get out of the service?

He was there close to two years.

Then he returned to Lincoln.

Then he returned to Lincoln. I didn't even know that he was in Germany. He wasn't supposed to tell even me where he is, where he goes. You know, something might come out and say, who knows what could have happened. But I was, he told me before that he doesn't write to me now for a while and I shouldn't worry. So I asked him where you're going. He says he's not allowed to tell, you know.

When the war ended and things settled down, your husband returned from the service. Have you ever been able to travel back to your home?

We went once to Germany, yeah. I had my, I always wanted to bury my mother, to go to my mother's grave before I die. And we, now my husband lost both his parents.

In the war?

In the war. And the sad thing was, he sent them the tickets about the same time I sent my father and sister. But they were lucky, they got out and his parents didn't.

They perished in the war. Does he know any of the details?

No, but I think he knew where they, after the war was over, where they were killed.

And when you went back to see your mother's grave, was the cemetery intact?

Beautiful. It was in beautiful shape. I couldn't get over it because only German people took care of it, you know.

You were able to find your mother's grave?

Oh yes, my grandmother was buried there. And they were very nice, you know. We went to the police, we wanted to know a few things, and they couldn't have been any nicer.

Were you able to see your home?

Yeah, we went inside.

You were, did you see the people?

Yeah, it was, they had a shoe shop, they sold shoes.

Did you know the people from when you were living there?

No.

You didn't know the people?

No. My dad did, but I was, I was gone already then, you know. So, it was very, so many of the people they wanted us to stay overnight, you know. But I couldn't have, I really, it was, the whole thing was like it wasn't real, you know. Like, I can't describe it, but I didn't want to stay longer.

Were you able to see anyone there that you knew and grow up?

Yes, I saw a few people who I knew that they weren't against Jewish people, you know.

And how did they treat you when you were there?

Very nice. They each wanted me to stay there and eat there, us, you know. But I didn't want to stay.

Did any of the conversation get around to those war years?

No.

No one talked about it?

No, I didn't want to.

How long...

I don't think they would have liked it either. I'm sure they were embarrassed about the whole thing, you know. But they had to go along, they were afraid that something might happen to them.

The synagogue that you attended as a child, was that destroyed on Kristallnacht?

Yeah.

Had they rebuilt a synagogue or that synagogue after the war?

I don't know.

You didn't get to find out?

I doubt it very much.

Were there some Jewish people living in the town when you were there?

No, they all left.

No Jewish community any further?

I don't think so.

When you returned then to Omaha and your husband was out of the service, can you tell me a little bit about your life in Lincoln, Nebraska, your family?

Yeah. Wait a moment. We went first to Casper, Wyoming. This is where my husband went after he was here a few years. They wanted him. I told you to be the head of the office.

Were you married at that time?

Yes.

And you lived in Casper, Wyoming?

Yeah, uh-huh.

For how long?

For about four years and he decided he wants to go to university and gets a few hours that he needs for passing the CPA examination.

So you returned to Lincoln?

So we returned to Lincoln.

Did he continue working at that time or was he a full-time student?

No, he was a full-time student. He did a little work, but I got a job.

What kind of work did you do?

I worked at a department store here. It was Gold's at that time, Gold's + Company. And my my hus- Henry worked a few hours that he could spare, you know. But then I became pregnant after six months.

What kind of work did you do in the department store?

I sold.

You're a seamstress?

Not seamstress. I just sold what they had for sale. I worked in Gold's basement. They had curtains and clothes and everything you can think of.

You were a salesperson?

Yeah, yeah.

And when your husband finished school, did he go back to work with the same company?

He worked for the... here for the company, yeah.

Was it the same company he worked for before?

Before he went to Wyoming.

As a CPA?

Yeah, at that time, many worked for the company. They hired him already when he wasn't a CPA, you know. But he wanted to start on his own. After he was a CPA, he didn't want to work office for anybody else.

So he established his own firm?

He established his own office.

Doing public accounting?

Yeah, he had two partners. One of them went to school with him. And one of them did the work for school and the other one copied it. And once a professor wrote under it: "Please, what you don't understand, look up at Henry Wald or look up at..." his name was Kleppinger. Because, you know, they just wanted to have time like Henry, who worked, you know. So it was fun, real nice.

And can you tell me about your boys?

Yeah. One is a neurosurgeon in Vermont. And the other one is a professor at the university in Gainesville.

Is the neurosurgeon, is he married?

Yes, he has two children.

So you have two grandchildren with that son?

Yeah, and the other one had two children, too.

The one that's the professor?

Yeah.

What does he teach?

He teaches political science.

At the University of Florida?

Mm-hmm.

Do you get to see your sons and your grandchildren often?

Yeah, no, not often. Once or twice a year.

Do they get back to see you or do you go see them?

No, they were here when we had that, where they honored Henry, you know, at the university. They both came. And they had a speaker, and my younger son, the one at the university, he said a few words, too. He's a wonderful speaker. He was in Israel twice for six months and taught at the university there.

Can you tell me about your husband being honored at the university here?

Yeah, they had the... I have a paper here, the whole, you know, where they describe. Well, he went to the university here, and the two boys went to the university, and I gave to the university.

Were they honoring him for a gift that he had given to the university?

No, they did it... You want... I could show it, no. They, you know, they just honored him, you know, and he did afterwards he was connected to the university, you know. So that was about it.

Mrs. Wald, as you look back upon your life and what you had to go through, the times of growing up in Germany and in the war years and coming to this country, the difficulty of getting established, raising a family and raising two fine sons, what message do you have to give us for that life of yours?

Well, it was in part a very, very nice life. On the other hand, it took us a terribly long time to get used to this country. We didn't know the language- we knew the language, but not well enough. And I would do the same thing again that I did then.

Do you have a message that you would leave for the younger people today describing your lifetime?

Well, it was... See, I didn't have so much to feel sorry for. First of all I got out in time and I learned the language. But I saw sad things, also many people who couldn't get out, you know. All my family practically got killed. My husband's parents got killed. I was lucky. My closest family, I got over here, but lots of other relatives had to die.

Well, I'd like to thank you on behalf of the survivors of the Shoah Visual History Foundation for allowing us to come in and to speak to you. Thank you.

You're welcome.

Mrs. Wald, can you describe this for me?

They show German women, actually, German Jewish women, what the Nazis did. Because the men were gone already, some of the women were jailed and some of them got shot.

And this was given at the university?

Yeah, yeah. Besides the talking, there were pictures. He showed pictures. And it was very interesting. I was so surprised there wasn't an empty seat, and I was worried.

And this lectureship is named in honor of your husband, is that right?

Yeah, right. I've never had a picture taken. This is when she got married.

Mrs. Wald, can you tell me who this picture is?

This is a picture of my father.

And when was that taken?

It was quite a few years. He died about ten years ago here in this country, and it was, oh, I'm sure it was at least twenty years along.

Was it taken in Germany?

In Germany, yeah.

And who is this picture of Mrs. Wald?

This is a picture of my mother. She was, that was before she was married. Now she, later on, and my mother didn't like her having her picture taken. There are very few I got of her. But this one, I think, is a very nice picture.

And she died following surgery while still in Germany?

Yeah, she was only 43 years old. But she wasn't. I never knew her.

Who are these people, Mrs. Wald?

Those are Henry's parents. I never met them. They died because I had a chance to come over here.

They were murdered during the war?

They were killed in a concentration camp.

Do you know which camp they were in?

I knew, but I don't, I really don't know anymore. There were so many.

Mrs. Wald, can you tell me who's in this picture?

Yes, I start left-hand side with my granddaughter. Her name is Jaina. She's her father standing next to her. And next to her father is her mother. And that is my other son, Steve, and his wife. And next to his wife is on the right-hand side. Now it's under his wife's picture. It's Sarah, she's Steve's daughter, and myself, and the little daughter of Kenneth. Her name is Jaina. And my sister next to me and above, between my sister and myself, is my brother-in-law, Rudy is his name. I think we got everybody.