Lola Reinglas Shoah Foundation Testimony

Today is November 20, 1995. The survivor's name is Lola Reinglas, whose maiden name was Schulkind. The interviewer is Sheryl Tatelman. We're in Omaha, Nebraska, in the United States, and we'll be interviewing in English. Today is November 20, 1995. I'm here in Omaha, Nebraska, with Mrs. Lola Reinglas, and we'll be doing the interview in English. And I'm Sheryl Tatelman. Could you tell us your name, please?

Hi, my name is Lola Reinglas.

And your maiden name?

My maiden name is Schulkind. I was born on April the 7th, 1925, in Krakow, Poland.

And what were the names of your parents?

My father's name was Karol. My mother's name was Karolina. I also have a sister, Helena, and I had a brother, Nathan.

And your brothers and sisters, were they older or younger than you?

My sister was older. My brother was three years younger than I.

And you were, all of the brothers and sisters born in Krakow?

All of us were born in Krakow, yes.

Was it, were there a lot of extended family members in Krakow?

We have quite a large family. My grandmother had 11 children, and, of course, everyone was married, so you can imagine, and everybody had children. So by the time we got together, there was really a whole bunch of people.

Tell me a little bit about your family life. What kind of family did you have?

Well, my father was a electrical engineer. My mother was a homemaker. I have my sister, my sister went to school, my brother also, and myself. We were a middle-class family, and we did pretty good. I had a good life.

So your father was an electrical engineer, so he was educated, he had a secular education.

Yes, yes, he did. And if I remember correctly, I think he was educated in Vienna.

Was your family a religious family?

No, not very much, no. But I got my religion from my grandmother, who was an Orthodox Jew, so any holidays we spent, you see, was my grandmother.

Was that your mother's father?

No, that was my father's mother.

And did you live in a Jewish neighborhood?

No, we did not.

But you had many relatives that lived in the city.

Well, I have quite a few relatives, they lived in a neighborhood, they're mostly Jews. Usually the custodian or, you know, were Gentiles.

You said that your father's name was Karol, and he was an electrical engineer. What kind of a person was he?

Well, he was fun to be with, really, and I loved him very much. We were very close-knit family, and so we did a lot of things together, and it was nice.

What kinds of things?

We went for vacation. I used to ski before the war, and my father used to ski, so we went all together. Summertime, you know, we rented a cottage in a little village, and we spent three months in the summer, so it was very nice.

And your mother, what kind of a person was she?

A little bit more stricter than, you know, than my father, but she spent more time with the children than my father did. You know, he left in the morning and didn't come until 2 o'clock. That's where we had the big dinner, at 2 o'clock. And then he left again, and then we stayed home with the maid, and we didn't see the parents until the next following day.

So there was someone who took care of you?

Yes, yes. We had a maid living with us.

And your brother and sister, who was oldest, your sister?

My sister was oldest, yes.

And what kinds of relationship did you have with them before the war?

Well, you know how children are. We fought, like any other American family, you know, but we cared for each other, and we still do.

And what kind of a child were you?

Very quiet, yeah. Used to play a lot with dolls. I love dolls to this day, I love dolls.

And what kind of a school did you go to?

Well, I finished seven grades of, you know, primary and middle, and I started one year of high school, but that was interrupted by the war.

Was that in a public school?

There was a public school, the seven grades, and the high school is, you know, regular high school. Gymnasium, what we used to call.

Gymnasium.

Right.

Were there other Jewish students in the school?

Yes.

Was it mostly Jewish?

Mostly Jewish, yes. The public school, mostly Jewish.

Did you ever encounter any anti-Semitism during that time?

A lot. I was called all kinds, you know, of names. Dirty Jew, what you doing here, why don't you go someplace else, and we don't want you, and so on and so forth. Yeah. So to me, that is not unfamiliar, you know.

Do you remember when you first knew that you were Jewish, how you knew you were different than other children?

Well, of course, you know, we still, also my family was not religious, but we observed the high holidays, and I went to the synagogue, and I went visit my grandmothers, have another grandmother on my mother's side. So, of course, I knew I was Jewish. You know, we maybe didn't observe all the holidays, and my father didn't go, you know, to the synagogue every week, but I still knew that I was Jewish.

So it was something you always knew?

Sure, yeah.

Do you remember when you first started to feel the anti-Semitism?

Well, when I got a little bit older, the main thing was when I started school, you know. So then I learned that I was different from the rest of the people.

Did you have a lot of friends in school?

Yes, quite a bit, yes. You know, I was involved with the choir, or chorus, whatever you call it. I had at one time a pretty good voice, so they always told me that I will be an opera singer, but, you know, I was interrupted because of the war.

What other kinds of interests did you have at that time?

Well, like I said, sports and singing, reading. I always read a lot.

What kinds of special memories do you have of your family before the war? What kinds of things did you like to do together?

Well, like I said before, we did quite a few things together, you know. We went to parks, we went to movies, we went to musicals, especially children plays, so I always went with my parents.

And what language did you speak at home?

Polish. Didn't speak Jewish until I met my husband. Didn't understand a word either.

And the other families, you had said that there were ten brothers and sisters, so you had all these aunts and uncles.

One was an Orthodox Jew.

One was Orthodox, and the rest were assimilated?

Very much so.

At what point did you feel that things were changing or becoming more dangerous?

Well, when in 1937 and 1938, German Jews were expelled from Germany, and most of them came to Poland. And then at that time we already knew that there is some kind of a unrest, something is not too good. Because at that time a lot of Polish people, Jewish Polish people, they left Poland and went to Palestine. So we knew it, you know, there is something wrong. And of course the German Jews, when they came, they were talking about the Kristallnacht, what happened, and then newspapers, and you know, so we knew what was really going on.

Is that something you knew from other children or from your parents?

About what?

About the problems in Germany.

No, that was directly, you know, when the people came, we all talked to them. You see, my parents spoke a very good German. You know, Poland at one time, my part of Poland at one time was Austria, it belonged to Germany. So everybody, you know, knew how to speak German. So we could communicate with the people that came to Poland.

And what kinds of things were you thinking at that time? Was your family thinking of leaving ever?

No, no. You know, it is just like over here. First you are American and then you are Jewish. So it was the same thing, you know, in Poland. First you were Polish and then you were Jewish, because Jewish is just a religion, right? So at that time there were people who came from Germany and were telling you that it was dangerous there.

And did you ever hear anything else about what was going on in Germany after that?

Well, you see, at that time there was not that much going on. It started I think in 1939 before the war broke out that the Jews always confiscated, you know, businesses. And I think, you know, the doctors could not practice. And so on and so forth. The teachers could not teach. So it was pretty bad.

What happened when Poland was invaded? What happened to your family?

Well, that is a completely new completely new life. Like I said, there is a new chapter in my life. And being 14 years old, you know, and watching the Nazis taking over my country. So, you know, I didn't know, but I had a pretty good idea that no good would come out of that.

Do you remember them actually coming in?

Yes, yes.

What happened?

You know, it only took three days. The war broke out in September of 1939. And September the 3rd, the German occupied Krakow. You know, I knew it right away that that would change my whole life and also the life of all the other Jews.

What happened what happened when they first invaded?

Well, what happened is, you know, next day all all the orders came out. So the first thing what happened is you should wear the Star of David band on your left arm. Schools were closed, I could not go to school. All your valuables were confiscated. You could not work. So, you see, we knew it, that that's that's what's coming, but we never ever thought, you know, that we be sent to a concentration camps.

You weren't able to go to school because the whole school was closed?

No, because the school of all the Jews were closed.

The Jews weren't allowed to attend the school?

No they allow, not allowed, no, not at all.

In the beginning was your father allowed to work or did he need to stop working right away?

Well, he needed to stop working. No, it was not allowed.

And did people come to your house to take your valuables?

The German came, yes.

And what other things happened in the beginning, during the beginning of the occupation?

Well, you know, you were not safe to walk on the street. You were afraid. And they start beating, you know, people, Jewish people. And they were taking them already, you know, to work, like unloading holes, because we used a lot of that. And so, you know, it was the situation was not good. You were afraid.

In what kinds of ways were you afraid? Were you afraid to walk down the street?

Yes, because if the German did know that I was Jewish, then the Poles point would point me out with a finger. Because, you know, I don't know how, but they could spot a Jew at night.

And what would happen? Was there any danger for someone who you were a 14-year-old girl at that time?

No, not really, you know. It's only when I forgot at one time to wear my armband that I was arrested.

You were arrested?

Arrested, I kept all day.

You were arrested by the Germans?

By the German police, yes.

Was that because someone pointed you out?

No, they probably spotted me, I don't know. But they arrested me, and my mother didn't know, you know, what happened to me, and they were worried. But they kept me all day, and maybe like 6 o'clock or 7 o'clock in the evening, they let me go.

Where did they keep you?

Well, there was a jail where they took me.

Were there other people in the jail?

Yes, the same people, you know, did the same thing as I did, they forgot to wear the armband.

Were you the first one in your family that something like this happened to?

Yes, mm-hmmm, yes.

What happened next?

Well, what happened next, you know, I cried a lot because I was so scared. That, you know, when I saw a German in uniform, even watching, you know, through the windows, you know, I got scared. I mean, after all, I was a child, 14 years old, it's still a child.

Had you seen Jewish people being taken away or heard at that time?

Yes, yes, some of them were taken away. We never heard from them at all. You know, it was spotted. They took one neighbor, and then, you know, we never heard from him, and then we heard that somebody else was picked up and never came back. So we didn't know, you know, what they did, whether they killed them or they sent them someplace, but we never heard from them.

At that time, you didn't know what was going on?

No, no, no. We only heard maybe about a year later.

So this was still 1941?

That was 1940.

1940?

Mm-hmm. And then 1941, when they finally gave an order that everybody is going to ghetto. And at that time, we already heard that there are some camps, but we really, exactly, we didn't know what was going on. It was just, you know, people were talking. But there was nothing, you know, the concrete that we knew that there are camps.

So the big edict came that everyone needed to move to a ghetto?

Yes, they gave an order, and they told us, whatever you can carry with you, that's all what you can take, and the rest, we had to leave. And then we walked.

How far did you walk?

Well, maybe 10, 12, you know, miles.

And what ghetto did you go to? Was it inside, inside the city?

Yes, that was inside the city. And the neighborhood was called Podgórze.

And it was within Krakow?

Yes, right. It was just, you know, more like when you cross a bridge, you know, on the other side. That's why they called this Podgórze.

So you hadn't lived in a Jewish neighborhood before? The place where this ghetto was, was it the Jewish neighborhood?

No, not at all. They were all Gentiles, but they gave them the apartments or the houses that we used to live, and they traded it. And we lived, you know, in the buildings where they used to live.

And how did you find a place to live within the ghetto?

Well, they assigned, you know, the rooms and the family. You go here, and you go here, and, you know.

When you say they, do you mean the Germans?

The Germans.

So your whole family, your sister and your brother and your parents?

Mm-hmm. And also my grandmother, my aunt and uncles and neighbors, and everybody went to ghetto.

And did you live with other families in the ghetto?

Yes, yes, yes.

How many other families?

Well, sometimes three, sometimes two, just depend on the size of the family. But you only had two rooms, like kitchen and a bedroom. So one family took the kitchen, and the other one took the bedroom. And it was a larger room then you have three families. We were all, you know, sleep on slept on the floor. So there was really nothing to talk about.

How did you get food while you were living in the ghetto?

Well, you know, we still have bread. They supply, you know, the German, no meat. But the ghetto was not that bad. You still had enough food, you know, you were not hungry.

What kinds of things did you do? Did you have to do any work, or did you go to school during the ghetto?

Oh, no, no, no. We didn't do a thing in ghetto. We just sat idles, you know, and did nothing.

Did you feel that it was a dangerous place?

Of course, because we knew it sooner or later, they have to do something. When you have such a large amount of people living under, you know, the same roof, you had all kinds of sicknesses coming. So, you know, they knew it that sooner or later they would have to do something with us.

That the Germans would do something with you?

Right, yeah.

Were there people that were rounded up in the ghetto?

Oh, yeah. Two or three times the people were rounded up, and the older people, they were shot on the spot. And at one time, I think that they killed 1,500 people at one time. And there were mostly, you know, people Orthodox Jews, with you know, payos and a beard, and the older women, small children.

Was this something that they asked people to come, and they would report, or they would just find people on the street and take them?

No, they said that there is, you know, Appellplatz, you know what that is? Gathering place, when they call all people, and then they start, you know, picking out older people and children and older women, that they knew it, that they won't be able to do a thing, because they were too old. You know, I never saw my father cry, never in my life. That was the first time when they killed 1,500 people, and my father cried like a little baby. So they told everyone to come, and then they chose the people that they wanted. And then we went back to our places.

And was that something that you saw as well?

I'm sure I was a witness to it. It was the first time.

That was the first time you saw people being killed?

Killed, right. At point blank.

Did they kill anyone that you knew at that time?

Of course. A lot of people, and then a lot of my family was also killed. People were older, and they thought that they won't be able to work, so that is the best way to get rid of them.

Were you were you working then in the ghetto?

No, no, not at all.

So what, did you ever think of escaping, or trying to escape from the ghetto?

It was barbed wire all around. It was a wall built, you know, very tall, so there was no way, then we have Germans, you know, at the entrance. So there was no way that anybody could escape.

So this was the first time, though, that you really understood how dangerous it was?

That's right. That was the first time that I knew it, and, you know, and first time, being 14 and being already an old woman. Because, you know, overnight, overnight, I realized that my childhood is gone.

Did that happen many times where people were shot in the ghetto?

Oh, yeah.

Rounded up and shot?

Twice. And they got rid of anybody that was no use to them, and after that, you see, they liquidated the ghetto, and we went to the Plaszow concentration camp, yes.

So your, you were sent to Plaszow. Were you sent – was anyone from your family sent before you?

Yes, I went with my mother and my father and my sister and my grandmother.

All of you together?

Yes. And then my brother, they pulled him from the line and said he cannot go because he was - for his age, he was little. And then my mother went back, and she took him back in the line, and he spotted him again, and he pulled him out, and he said, now, if you do this next time, I'm going to shoot you with him on the spot. So, you know, we had to leave him in the ghetto.

So the four of you left and left your brother behind?

, yes.

And did you ever see your brother again?

No, no. He was loaded, you know, on with the rest of the children and people they didn't want to take to the camp. were loaded on trucks, and they all went to Auschwitz.

So this happened all on one day where they were liquidating the ghetto?

Yes.

Had there been transports out of the ghetto before this?

No, no, no. There were only, you know, when they rounded up the people just to pull out people they didn't like to, you know, to take to the camp. When they killed them, it was only twice that they rounded the people, and then the rest of us went to the camp. And my grandmother went to the camp, and they pulled her out, in Plaszow, they pulled her out. She had to dig her own grave, then she had to walk in that grave, and then they shot her right after she arrived in in the camp, yeah.

That was something that happened immediately when you all arrived?

Yeah.

And did your parents see this? Did you and your parents have to watch this?

Of course we watched that, yes.

And you were still with your mother and your father and your sister at that time?

And my sister, right. And then, you know, we were separated. The men went to one side, the woman went to the other side. So I and my sister and my mother, we were in the same barracks. We live in the same barracks, and my father was on the other side. And then during the evening hours, you had a certain time, like maybe like 15, 20 minutes, that you can go and see whether it was a brother or a husband or a father, that you can go and visit for about 15, 20 minutes.

What kind of work did you do in Plaszow?

Well, for the first, you know, I don't know, maybe two or three weeks, maybe four, I went out of the Plaszow camp, and I used to work in a hospital cleaning. After when they brought, you know, the soldiers from the war.

So you would go out of the camp to clean hospitals that were for soldiers?

Yes, for soldiers.

How would you get out? Would you march?

Yes, we walked, yes. But we had, you know, Germans with the machine guns.

How far would you have to walk?

Oh, I would say that we sometimes walk maybe 10, 15 miles a day, one way.

And what time of year was this?

That was in 1942, 43.

Was it winter or summer?

That was winter, yeah.

So what kinds of contact did you have with the Gentile people? What what did they say to you? Did they ever?

They didn't say anything, and they were happy. They were very happy. They've got everything, you know, from the Jews. And they were happy they are they are getting rid of the Jews. They always wanted Poland without the Jews, so they were very happy.

Did anyone ever help you?

No, not me. There were some some good Gentiles that they save maybe one or two person. They kept them in the house, a special room that, you know, nobody knew about it. There were some good. I'm not saying that all Gentiles were bad. There were some of them that were very good, and they put their lives on the line, and they saved Jews, yes. But the majority, you know, overall, were not very friendly.

November 20th, 1995, with Mrs. Lola Reinglas. You were talking about when you were first in Plaszow, you were working in hospitals, and you would be marched out. How many people would be marched out together?

Well, maybe about 25 to 30 woman my age.

So it was all teenagers?

All were very young teenagers, yes.

Did anyone any of the people, the gentile people, ever give you any food?

No, no, no. But some of the German soldiers, you know, when I was working and scrubbing the floors, and they said to me, don't don't tell anybody, and they gave me bread, and they gave me some sausage, and I have a double-deck purse that I put this on one bottom, and then cover that, so you see, when I went through the entrance, so they wouldn't see, because they checked all the purses, so they wouldn't see that I am taking or bringing some food in the camp. You know, that saved a lot of my mother's and father's lives, you know, for a little bit longer.

So you gave the food not only, you didn't eat only-

I didn't I didn't eat because I got good food while I was working in the hospital. So whatever I brought, it was for my mother and my father and my sister, yes.

What kind of food did they have in the camp?

We've got one slice of bread in the morning, and then you went to work, and then in the evening you got a bowl of soup. If you can call this a soup, there was some water with two or three little potatoes, and a slice of bread, and a cup of coffee.

What was the condition of the barracks in Plaszow?

It was terrible. You know, there were people that were sick. There were people that they had attacks of, I forgot you know the disease where they have the shakes that you have to put, you know, something in the mouth so they wouldn't swallow the tongue. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Like epilepsy?

Epilepsy, right right. So we have, you know, to watch that person and cover if sometimes, you know, the German came just to take a look what was going on, and if they would see that, you know, they would kill her right away. So people were dying from hunger. So you didn't say anything that the person is dead, or you could get that slice of bread. What was for her, you took it, or or you know the soup or the coffee. So you know you learn to live with it. You went to sleep, and people were alive, and you got up in the morning, on this side were dead, and on the other side were dead, and you got used to it. Didn't, you know, the first time it bothered you, but the second or third time it was just a way of living.

What kinds of relationships did you have with the other people in your barracks?

Well we really, we were pretty good, you know. We tried to help as much as we could, but never, you know, to take your own life in your hands, you know to really save somebody else. We tried to very much, you know, but it came to a point, it was her life or yours. So you know you got selfish. You know, they degraded you so much that you were not a person. You were like a animal, and they treated you like one. So you know it's it's hard to get used to to a life like this, but it's a necessity of what you have to, otherwise you know you would die.

Did you see people being kind to each other in the camp?

Usually, you know, like I said before, we tried to be like one big family, you know. But when you have in a barracks, when you have four or five hundred women, in one barracks, it's you know hard. It's very hard.

Were you able to stay with your mother and your sister most of the time?

I stayed with my mother and the sister until, you know, they separated me, and I went to a different camp.

How did that happen?

I used to, after you know I quit working in the hospital, I used to work in a paper factory, and I was working on a night shift. So you see, early in the morning, maybe like three or four o'clock in the morning, they cordoned off, you know, the whole building, and the German came, and they start pushing us out, and they were loading us right away, you know, because there were railroad tracks in the camp. So they were loading us on the coal wagons or cattle wagons. So I didn't see my mother, I didn't see my sister, and I didn't see my father.

You were working in a paper factory. Was the paper factory inside the camp?

Yes, yes, yes. And you know, I really don't know, maybe that belonged also to Schindler. I have no idea. You know, I never paid any attention at that time, but it could be, because he had quite a few, you know, factories that Jews were working for him.

So you knew you knew of Schindler or you knew him?

Oh yeah, I knew yeah, right. Yes, I knew him.

Did you ever have any contact with him, or what kinds of things did you know about him at that time?

I knew that he was a drunkard, and he was a womanizer, and that's about it, what I knew.

Did people say good things or bad things about him?

People were not talking. You know, people were not talking. So and you know, being so young, I never paid any attention. My main thing was, so my mother, my father, and my sister, you know, that they stay alive.

What kinds of conversations did you have with your mother and your father and your sister while you were in the camp?

Well, we were talking about the family, whether we are going to see them again. Were talking about my brother, because we didn't know what happened to him. We talking about the situations. And my father always said, no matter what, I'm going to live long enough to see the German fall. And he always told the children the same thing, never lose faith.

Did that give you hope or determination?

Yes, yes, yes. But do you know that he gave my sister and myself a little bottle of poison? I had this on my neck. I was wearing that all the time. And then he said, it's going to be real bad, then you go ahead and do it. But didn't have a chance, because when I came to the camp, they took everything away from me.

When you came to which camp? To Plaszow?

Yes, you know they took everything away.

So he gave that to you while you were still in the ghetto?

Yeah, right. You see, I have one aunt, and she had three children. And she came to my father, and she wanted, you know, the poison, but he just could not give it to her.

When did she come to him?

In the ghetto. So she went you know, when they liquidated together, she went with the three children to Auschwitz and went to the gas chamber.

So when you were in Plaszow, was that the last time you saw your father?

Yes, yes.

Did you see him frequently in Plaszow?

Oh, I tried to see them, you know, see him at least once a day, if it was possible. Sometimes, you know, you could not get out from the barracks once you came back from work. When I work, you know, during the night, so I have to sleep during the day, and my father went to work during the day. So sometimes, you know, there was not even a chance to see him.

What about your mother and your sister? Did you work with them?

My mother and my sister, they they work in a different place. I did not work with them at all.

What kinds of ways were you and your family able to help each other in the camp?

There was, you know, very little, there was very little we could do. We just try, you know, to keep the morale and believing, you know, that it soon will come to an end. And especially my father was such an optimist and always believed that the war will end and the Jews will survive.

So you were taken from Plaszow without being able to say goodbye to your family?

No, no, no, I didn't. And then I went to Skarżysko-Kamienna. And this camp, I work at the ammunition factory.

In the next camp in Skarżysko?

Yes.

What was that journey like to Skarżysko?

Well, you know, Skarżysko it's not too far, you know, from Warsaw. And at that time, we already heard about Majdanek, you heard Majdanek, an extermination camp. And since we were going in this direction, so we knew, we were 100 percent sure that we are going to Majdanek and then we are going to be gassed over there. But then, you know, they switched, and instead of going to Majdanek, we went to Skarżysko. And we were scared with great big buildings, and when they told us, leave everything, you know, over here and strip. And we heard what was going on, you know, with the stripping, so we were sure that this is it.

So when you got to Skarżysko, you were still-

Right, very afraid. But in the meantime, that was real bath, they deloused us, you know, they shaved us. And we wear the same clothes, except, you know, that they painted yellow, you know, stripes. And you had the number, you were no more names, just a number. So you completely lost your identity. When they called, they called your number.

And everyone had the same uniform?

Well, whatever they were wearing, you know, but it was all painted with with yellow stripes. You see, only Auschwitz was the one that they took everything away, and they gave them the same uniforms to to wear, you know, gray with with with blue stripes. But in this camp where I was, you still could wear, you know, your clothes. I know that I had some boots. And they had a lot of the Volksdeutsche, you know. And the people who were Gentiles working, and there was a woman that liked my boots, so they took the boots from me, and they gave me wooden shoes to wear. So I didn't have no socks, so I was lucky if I could find newspaper, you know. So I wrapped around the newspaper around my feet, and I was wearing the wooden shoes.

And you were working in an ammunitions factory?

Mm-hmm.

What was the work like there?

Well, if you didn't make the quota, so you had to work, whether it was 15, 16, 18 hours, they didn't care. You have to work until you make the quota. And they made sure 60, 70,000 bullets.

But you were making just bullets every day?

Yeah, artillery, you know. They were two centimeters in diameter, and the bullets were about this big. So you see, if I didn't make the quota, I could work 20 hours. Even if the other shift came, because there were three shifts. So if you didn't make the quota, you stay so long until you made the quota. And you could never make it. You never make 60,000, you know.

What was life life like in Skarżysko?

Miserable, miserable. They they you know, they had a ravine in Skarżysko, and they filled up this with 20,000 people that they killed, even up with the road. But then we knew also, you know, that that was partisans in the woods, not too far from the camp. And that was before I came to that camp. They were telling me that they had one German that was so mean, he was killing the Jews right and left. So they came, and they killed him.

The partisans came and killed a particular German.

The partisan, uh-huh. The German, uh-huh. So when we came, it was really not as bad as the people they had before.

How did you hear that story?

You see, the the Gentile people, they talk, you know. And they think, you know, nobody understands what they are saying, so we knew.

It was the Gentile people who were outside the camp?

They were, yes. But they were working, you know, they were like kapos. You know where the kapo was, like a manager or like a foreman, excuse me, foreman. So that way, you know, seeing the machines were running right and so on and so forth.

So you overheard them talking about this?

Mmhm mmhm yes.

Were all the people in the camp Jewish?

Yes, yes. There were three camps. They called this, one was A, one was B, and the third one was a C. So you see, when you came, they selected you. One, they went to A, and I went to B, and the C was, where they were killing the people. So if they didn't like the way you look, so they sent you to, they called it Werk C.

Were the people in the camp all Polish, Jews from Poland, or were there people from other places as well?

Well, you see, mostly where the first group that came was around, where they used to live around, you know, Skarżysko. And then they brought our transport from Płaszow. And then later on, they were sending to Płaszow people from Hungary and Romania, you know, and France. So afterwards, you know, when the [unclear] were shipped, they went to different camps, and that's why they had international people from all over the countries, all over Europe.

How long were you in Skarżysko?

I was eight months, and from over there, I was sent to Tschenstochau.

And what was it like there?

It was worst than it was in Skarżysko.

In what way?

Well, people were not treated, you know, like we were treated in, at least, you know, when you work in Skarżysko. When you work, and they didn't care how many hours, but as long as you work and were able to produce, you know, it was not so bad. But in Tschenstochau, it was just terrible. No matter what you did, it was no good. You work hours, and the cold day, two o'clock in the morning, Appellplatz, you had to get out, and it was ten below zero. And you had no shoes, no clothes, and they start counting people, you know. And so it was really bad.

So they would call you to stand outside at two in the morning?

Oh, yeah, we stood sometimes, you know, for two or three hours with frozen feet and hands and what have you.

And that hadn't happened in the other camps where you were?

Well, it happened, but not as often as it was in Tschenstochau. Yeah, we had more women, German women over there than we had men, and the women were more vicious than the men.

Were these all women from—were they in the SS?

Yeah, yes, right, SS.

In what other ways was it more difficult there?

Like I said, they didn't feed you right, they didn't give you enough food. They work you all hours. You could not go to the hospital, because once you went over there, you know, they they killed you. So different circumstances, completely different circumstances

What were the living conditions like there? Where there was it also a large barracks?

We had thousdand, a thousand women, one thousand women in one big room. When you wanted to go, you know, to the bathroom, you couldn't, because you had to go out. So you know, you had a pad or whatever and when in the morning, when the German woman came to see what's going on, they found, and you know, that pad under your where you slept. So that person, whether it was yours or not, was responsible for that. So get twenty-five lashes, no food, nothing to drink, nothing to eat, and you went to work.

So you weren't allowed to leave the barracks at all?

No, no. And neither, could you leave in Plaszow. You couldn't do it either. Because all the latrines you see were outside. You know, they took even the monuments, because the Plaszow was built where the cemetery was. So they took all the monuments and they made road. And at night, you have all the Germans with big lights and machine guns, and they were going all around, you know. And when you wanted to go out, so they didn't know whether you go to the bathroom or you want to escape, so they shot you. So that that's what it was.

What kind of work were you doing in this camp?

Tschenstochau?

Tschenstochau

The same thing, the ammunition factory.

And was it the same situation where you needed to make a quota every day?

Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. The same situation.

Was it very difficult to make this quota?

Well, you know, like I said before, you worked so many hours until you did. But, you know, we always were cheating. So anything, you know, that was no good, they called it schmeltz, no good. So we went and we pick up a big box, you know, and we put it under and just prayed to God that she didn't come, you know, to check whether they're good or bad. Because we had to do that, check, you know, from time to time. Because they were telling us, if the bullet is bad, German cannot shoot. And if they cannot shoot, they get killed. I said, that's very good, so let's put a little bit more bad, you know, bullets in. And then they found once, and all the time, they found that I had, you know, a bad one, so twenty-five lashes.

Twenty-five lashes?

Mmhm yeah, lucky they didn't kill me. So I guess, you know, I had to live long enough to come here to the United States.

What was it like at night in Tschenstochau? You said that sometimes people would be you would be called for-

Well, they came, you know, and they said, raust, out, so we knew it. And anybody, you know, that didn't look right to them, you know, you went like that you pinch your cheeks, so they'll be pink, that you didn't look, you know, like you were dead already. But if they didn't like you and they just didn't like the way you look, so that was it. You know, they they brought cars, big trucks, and the cars, you know, they had the gas in the cars. So when they took the people, when they put them in those cars, and they turned, you know, to get, like maybe carbon monoxide or whatever, and the people, you know, by the time they went to the other place, what I was telling you, they were dead.

So this was like a gas chamber in the back of the truck?

Truck, right.

Did you—what kinds of relationships did you have with the other people there, because it was much tougher there?

Well, first of all, you know, I was alone. Didn't have the support from my father and my mother and my sister, so I was alone. So, you know, I learned just to do this thing to survive. And, you know, in this time already, it is already 1944. It's been a long time, and, you know, shipped from one camp to the other. So you knew it, that you have to do something, and we didn't care anymore. Who you hurt or whatever so just so you can survive. So we really didn't do anything like we did when we were in Plaszow or even, you know, in Skarżysko.

People were had to be more for themselves.

Of course, yes. Otherwise you could not survive. You know, the weak could not survive. No way. So I learned, you know, to do things for me.

What was it like when you were liberated?

First of all, you see, we heard when they were bombing, they were throwing the bombs. They knew where the camp was, so they just did all around. We saw the fire all around, but not in the camp where we were. And we knew it, that something is coming, but we didn't know what. But then when we got out, the German disappeared, they left. And and and the barracks, you know, were just a few people left, whoever could not go. You know, I was so sick already, so they wouldn't take you to ship you, you know, to another camp from Tschenstochau.

So the Germans had taken many of the people out.

The people, you know, that were able to work. They they sent them, you know, to, again, on the trains, and they all reach, you know, Bergen-Belsen, they all went. Whoever didn't survive didn't survive. But I was so sick, so you see, they left me because they knew it, or I'm going to die in a short time. They didn't even bother, you know, to kill me.

You were very you were one of the most sick people at that time?

Yes I, well, everybody was in the same situation, everybody was sick. People, you know, that they were left, most of them were very sick.

Were you, in what way were you sick?

Well, just could not eat anymore, could not drink water anymore, could not keep anything in my stomach. So, you know, I was just laying there, waiting to die.

Had you been working?

No, no, not anymore.

Why is it that do you think that they didn't kill you before that?

There's no explanation for that, there really isn't. I don't know. I ask my question the same all the time. Why me and why not the rest of them? There is no answer.

So you were just staying in the bunk, in the barracks?

Uh-huh, right.

While other people, how long had this been going on that you had been very sick like this?

Oh, I would say maybe the last three weeks.

The last three weeks of the of the war?

Of the war, right.

And then they took most of the people out, and you stayed behind with other people who were sick?

Uh-huh, right. And some people, you know, they hid. They wouldn't be shipped, and they took a chance, whatever will be will be, you know. They didn't want to go no more in another transport because half of the transport died. You know, it was cold and no food and no facilities, so you know how it is.

Were there any Germans that stayed behind any soldiers?

Most most of them left, and when they left, then we knew that we survived the war.

So you knew that was the end?

Yes, right. Because whoever was able, you know, open all the storage rooms, when they had all the bread and meat, and you know, that's what happened. They started to eat, and they were not used to eat, you know, fat food, so most of them died.

So other people who were left behind started to find the food within the camp?

Well, they knew it, you know, where the storage room was, so they opened that, and, you know, they find all the food and all the can, you know, all was canned meat and fat and what have you. So that was really bad for them. They they were just so hungry that they didn't care, and that's what killed them.

Many of them died?

Died, right.

Did you get any of that food at that time?

No, no, no. I was smarter now I knew it, that if I do that, then I'm going to die. So just little by little, you know, like a piece of dry bread without anything on it, and a little bit of tea or even just hot water, you know, so.

So you were very sick at that time?

Very sick, right. Just vomit all the time, could not keep anything. I had ulcers in the camp, I got ulcers in the camp, and I still do have them to this day.

What, how long did you stay in the camp after the Germans left?

I stayed maybe four or five weeks until I got myself, you know, on my feet.

And were the Russians in the camp at that time?

They came, you know, they liberated us, of course. And they were the ones also that were giving away all the food, all the vodka to drink. You know, when they liberated the camp, they came with a tank, and there were four Russian people dead, but they kept them on the tanks when they came to, you know, when they liberated us.

There were dead people?

Dead people, yeah. I just don't know what was, why, but they put four, two and two on each side.

November 20, 1995, Mrs. Lola Reinglas, you were talking about how the camp was liberated by the Russians, and you were you had stayed behind, and the Russians came with a tank. What happened next?

Well, you see, we were afraid you know to go out from the barracks, because we really didn't know what was going on, but then we heard so much noise and talking, and people were screaming, and so you see, we went out, and then we saw that we were liberated.

People were screaming in what way?

Crying, and they were happy, and they could not believe, you know, that they survived, that they're alive, and no more German, no more working, you know, no more Appellplatz, no more of anything.

So people were crying out of joy.

Their joy, that's right, and you know, they were screaming, really, because they were so happy, so they we didn't know what we were doing. We never believed, you know, that we are going to survive, and especially with somebody that was as sick as I, I thought, you know, it will take more, maybe a day or two, and I will die, and here I am liberated. So it was just wonderful, you know, feelings you cannot describe in words, the way you feel, but you can tell when you're happy and when you're sad, and we were happy. And then, you know, we learned what was going on all over the Europe, what the German did, because the Russian knew, and like I said, there was a officer, and he spoke Yiddish, and I didn't understand a word of Yiddish, but the people, you know, they translated to me.

So there was a Russian officer who was actually Jewish?

Jewish, yes. There were a lot of soldiers that were Jewish, yes.

And they told you what was it?

And they were telling us, now you are going to be saved, you are liberated, and don't worry and we'll take good care of you, and you don't have to, you know, worry about anything anymore. And they did, they did. The first thing what they did, you know, they fed you, and that was the worst thing anybody could do it, you know, because your stomach was shrinked, and not just eating all that fat food, so people died to survive the war, and died after the war, and that's what happened to my father.

That's what happened to your father?

Yeah, but my father, you see, he didn't die because he was eating. He died because he was beyond any help, you know, from hunger and from hard work. He died, but he, but he died two days after the war.

How did you find this out?

Because when I went back to Krakow, I met a guy that was working for my father before the war, and he was with him. And then he told me.

He had been with him in the camp?

Yes. And then he told me that my father died after the liberation. So at least he knew it, that he lived long enough to see the Germans, you know, going down.

Was that something that was positive for you?

That was something that he, as far as I can remember, that he always said that whatever it is going to be, he just wants to see, and he is going to try to live long enough to see the German beat. And he told us, the children, the same thing, don't ever lose hope, and don't ever lose your faith. You always remember that, and I did and here I am.

So in your camp, when the when the Russians came, you said that they treated you, they tried to take care of you?

Yes. Not only me, but anybody, you know, that was sick, unable to walk or unable to do anything for themselves. So they they took care, yes.

Was there any medical care at that time? Were there any doctors?

No. There were doctors, but there nothing they could do because they didn't have nothing to work with, you know. And they were not allowed to, while you were in the camp, you were, they were not allowed to do anything. German didn't want you to survive, they didn't want you to get well.

And after the war, was anyone able to help you to get better?

Well, I did that really. I did it myself. And I was with some other friends that we, you know, be together like another girl that came from the same town as I did, so we stayed together.

You were both from Krakow?

Yes.

And you were you had you were together during the liberation?

Yes, yes, right. I met her in the last camp, the Tschenstochau. And then we stayed together, and together we came to back to Krakow.

How old were you then?

At that time I was eighteen, going on nineteen. I was an old maid.

What happened when you got back to Krakow?

The first thing what I did, I was looking for quarters where where, you know, to live, and looking for my family. And I found my uncle that was in Dachau, and he came back, and I and my cousin. She was in Auschwitz, and then she was left in Auschwitz. And that's why she could come at the same time as I did, because whoever was left was also liberated by the Russians.

So she stayed in Auschwitz after some people had to leave, and-

Well, yeah. you know There was another transport that any able bodies were shipped to another camp. You know, my father, he was in Plaszow, and he was the last one that they marched. Four hundred people were left in Plaszow. And he walked from Krakow to Auschwitz, walked. Then he walked to Oranienburg, and then Flossenburg, and that's where he died. But he was one of the four hundred that they, you know, left in Plaszow.

So at this time, when you first came back to Krakow, you came with your friend. You didn't know where what had happened to any of your family, really.

No, no, no, no. But that was right away, you know. They have a Jewish community center. They had, you know, a little room where you can go and ask, you know, they had some information. And when I asked about my family, they had no information, they really didn't know what happened to them, and they really didn't know who survived. And after being maybe a week or two, maybe even a month, I don't really remember exactly, but then, you know, they had all the lists. Every name, a person that survived, it was on that list, but I never found, you know, my mother or my sister's name. So I was sure that they died in the camp.

What was the situation like for the Jewish people in Krakow at that time?

Well, you know, it was sad because everybody was looking for somebody. You didn't have a place where to stay, or, you know, by the time they came, there was a building designated for people that were coming back from the camps. You slept in one room, and then in another was this one, a dead one. It was just like gypsies. And then finally, you know, I found my uncle, and he had a room, so I moved in with him and my cousin. And we stayed there, and we waited, but nobody came back from my family, you know, my father, not my brother.

Did you ever try to go back to your old apartment?

Yes, I did. I went, you know, to the house where we used to live, and the custodian asked me, are you still alive? And I told her, you drop dead, and I left. That was it, you know, she took—they took everything what it was in the house.

So none of your things were there anymore?

No, I wanted, you know, to find out what happened, who's got it, who took it, no. And I really didn't—really didn't care. You know, material things were very unimportant.

How did you find your uncle?

Well, he was, you see, on the list. He was on the list, and they listed him where he lived, too, so it was easy for me to find him.

Was it a difficult period as you were back in Krakow?

Very, very difficult period, because here you are all alone. Uncle is wonderful, you know, but it's not your mother or your father or your sister. And he was looking also for his wife and the children that he lost. So everybody was looking for somebody just to be together. You know, you were so alone all those years that you really need needed somebody to tell you, I love you, I'm glad you alive, and I didn't have that.

Was it dangerous at that time for Jewish people?

In the beginning, it was not so bad, because there were not that many people coming. But then afterwards, you know, and when the war ended, the more and more people were coming, so the situations, you know, got a little bit worse, because somebody has, you know, to feed the people. So we went back to the same thing. The Poles were saying that we are taking their livelihood, you know, and they take we take their food from their mouth to, you know, to feed us, so.

So there started to be more anti-Semitism amoung the Poles?

Yes, right. There was a lot of people, you know, in smaller places, smaller villages, that they were killed after the war, because they survived, and everybody goes, you know, where they used to live, and they went over there, and the same thing, looking for some of their families. And overnight, the people came and they killed them.

How long did you stay in Krakow?

Eight months after the liberation. And finally, you know, when they had the pogrom, when they start, you know, shooting on the street, all the Jews, then we decided that it's time to go.

Who was shooting Jews on the street?

The Gentiles.

Polish people?

Polish people.

Just civilians?

At random, just whoever, you know. We, they knew it where we congregated, and they knew it where we used to live, because there was one building designated, you know, for the people to stay there. And they knew where we were, and they started shooting. So we got together, and we decided that we are going to leave Poland and go to back to Germany. And maybe from over there, we didn't know what we are going to do, but at least in Germany, we knew it that we are not going to get killed, like it was, you know, in Poland.

Who was it that decided to go back?

My uncle decided.

You and your uncle?

And my cousin.

So the three of you went together?

Yes. The three of us, we went to Prague and Czechoslovakia. We stayed over there a week, and then from over there, we smuggled ourselves back to Germany.

And how did you do that?

Over the borders, you know.

Walking?

Walking, yeah. And once guard changes, you went under, you know, the wire or whatever, and we were good at it.

Where did you go once you got to Germany?

I stayed in displaced person camp. I started working over there at the kosher kitchen since my uncle was an Orthodox Jew. And so he had, you know, the job to be overseer of the kosher kitchen, and I worked over there for a little while.

What was the name of this camp?

Foehrenwald Wolfratshausen.

And you worked in the kitchen, and your uncle also worked in this kitchen?

Yes, yeah. I worked, and he was just, you know, looking that everything is done the right way. Right. But at least I had enough food working in the kitchen.

What was it like for you in that camp?

You know, I was I was really happy, really, that I'm alive and I'm working, and whatever it this. I've got my uncle and my cousin, so, you know, I was not really alone. And being one week in that camp, I met my husband, and we were dating, never dated before in my life, o it was kind of awkward. You know, you don't know what to do. But he told me that he does not want to get married in Germany, he wants to go to Israel. I said, that's fine, I don't want to get married either. I'm not going to tell him. And five months later, we were married.

What kind of a man was your husband?

Oh, he was a wonderful husband. Miss him. Yeah. I had been married 49 years, that's a milestone.

And you got married in the camp?

I got married in the camp, yes.

And did you have any children in the camp?

We moved, you know, from the displaced person camp after we were married, and we lived in Munich. And then we registered to go to the United States. But in the meantime, you know, I went to the Red Cross and I told them to write wherever and hoping, you know, that they will find my mother and my sister. So after we got married in 1946, they found my mother and my sister. They were ready, you know, to go from Sweden to South America because my mother had a brother over there.

So the Red Cross found your mother and your sister. They were in Sweden?

Yeah, they were in the sanatorium. You see, my mother was very sick with tuberculosis, and my sister went with her. King Gustaf of Sweden invited all the survivors that were sick to come to the sanatorium and stay as long, you know, until they get well. And so my mother stayed over there quite a few months in the sanatorium. My sister also worked in the hospital, so this way she could be close, you know, to my mother. And then, you know, the brother of my mother sent them the papers to go to South America, and that was about one day before they left. That's when the Red Cross found them. And my mother wrote me a letter to Germany because they gave them the address because they knew the Red Cross knew where I was. And I recognized, you know, my mother handwriting. So she gave me the address where she is going to be in Uruguay. So I wrote her a letter back. She want to know when I was born and where and the name of my father and my mother and the rest of the family just to make sure, you know, that I'm her daughter. And I also told her that I am married. And then, you know, how it started, we started to correspond with each other. And they wanted me very badly to go to South America, but I decided that I want to go to the United States, so I registered.

You registered for you and your husband to go to the United States?

United States Right. And in the meantime, I got pregnant. And at that time, they didn't take pregnant women, you know, to the United States. So I had to wait until my child was born, and then I re-registered again. And it took me about nine months before I was sent to the U.S.A.

So when you came, you came not only with your husband but with your child?

Yeah. Jenatte was nine months old.

And your mother and your sister were still in Uruguay?

Yes. And like I said, you know, they want they made me the papers to go to South America, but I wrote them and decided that I don't want to go.

Why was that?

I knew it, you know, somehow that the life over there is not that good. You know, you have the very poor or the very rich, and there is no middle class. And when you don't have the middle class, you know, the situation is not that good. And then I decided, you know, that I'd rather go to the United States. Didn't want to go even to Israel. See, like I told you before, I maybe was very selfish, but I wanted a different life for me. I felt, you know, that I went through a lot and that I'm entitled to a better life than the South America or Israel could offer me.

Did you have any family in the United States?

No. I didn't have anybody. And when we got the papers, it said that we are going to Omaha, Nebraska. And I said to my husband, my God, we are going to Alaska. What are we going to do over there? So when we stopped in New York, we came Thanksgiving Day. So they kept us on the boat, fed us with Thanksgiving dinner with all the trimmings. And the following day, you know, they unloaded us. And we have people from HIAS, you know, the Jewish organization, and they waited for us, and they asked me whether we would like to stay in New York, and I said, definitely not. New York was too big, too noisy, you know, too many people. It was just too much, and I needed a place when it was quiet, peaceful, not big rush. You didn't have to drive two hours to go to one place. And Omaha just didn't need fine. So we came to Omaha, and it was rough, without the language, without money, without knowing anybody, you know. We came Sunday, and my husband, Monday, went to work.

How did he find a job?

The person that picked us up from the station where we came, he had a furniture store, he was working for him delivering the furniture. So he worked over maybe three or four months, and then he found a job in cabinet making.

He was a cabinet maker?

Yes you see all the furniture over here he made.

How did the people treat you at that time?

Well, they were very nice, they were very nice. But they never wanted to hear anything what I wanted to tell them.

You mean about the war?

About the war, about the Holocaust, about my experiences and who I lost and all my life. And they said, well, you've got everything behind you, you should not talk about that. And you should go forward and be happy that you are here in the United States.

So people weren't very sympathetic to you?

No, no. I really don't know why. Maybe there was a reason. Maybe they felt guilty that they didn't do, you know, things that they were supposed to do because I'm sure that they knew here what was going on in Europe.

How did you stay in touch with your mother and your sister in Uruguay?

By writing.

You were writing?

And then in 1959, I went to my nephew's bar mitzvah. I visited them. So I haven't seen my sister for 16 years, but my mother was here, came for a visit in 1953, and she stayed here two months. She came for a visit, then she went back. And she was telling my sister, you know, the way we live over here. And it was much better than it was in Uruguay. And after I went and I saw them, then they decided that they would like to come to live in the United States. And, you know, two years later, 1961, they came to the United States and settled over here in Omaha.

And you have, so you had your mother and your sister living with you and your children?

No. No. My sister and her husband and her children, they rented an apartment. You know, they stayed with us maybe a week. And then my husband found him a job for his brother-in-law. And then they rented an apartment. And my mother lived with my sister. And they stayed in their own apartment.

And you have children, how many children now?

I have two daughters. I have one, Jenatte Baker, that lives in Boston. I have Ann Brand, that lives in Dallas, Texas.

And you have grandchildren?

And I have one 12-year-old granddaughter, Alison Baker.

And what message do you have to Alison and to her generation?

Sheryl Tatelman

Well, thank you very much for sharing your story with us.

Thank you. I'm glad to do it.

Okay. This is a picture of my whole family that was taken in November of 1941, and at that time, we all were in the ghetto.

And the names of the people?

My father, Karol Schulkind. My mother, Karolina Schulkind. My sister, Helena. My brother, Nathan, and myself.

And where are you?

And I am in ghetto.

Which, are you on the right or the left?

I am on this, right now, I'm on the right.

And how did you get this picture?

I was carrying the picture all from, through all the camps in my hand, just like that.

You carried it through all the concentration camps?

Right.

This is the picture, the back of the picture, that it says the date when it was taken. And also, it says it was during the war when we were ghetto.

Okay. That my mother, Karolina Schulkind. The picture was taken 1958 in Montevideo, Uruguay.

This is a picture of my mother in law. It was taken in Piotrkow, Poland. What year? I don't know, but that was sent to us by my husband's cousin from San Francisco.

What was her name?

Her name was Jenatte Reinglas.

And was this taken before the war?

That was taken before the war, before she even got married.

That's my husband, Irving Reinglas and myself.

And do you know when that was taken?

I would say sometimes in 19- maybe- 85.

And was that here in Omaha?

That was all taken here in Omaha.

Tell us a little bit more about your husband.

Well, he was a wonderful guy, devoted father and a devoted husband. And it was never too much or too little for him to do. And he was just a great guy, and I loved him, and I still do, even if he's gone.

Did you spend a lot of time together?

We spent a lot of time. We would have celebrated our 49th wedding anniversary last March. And I'm sorry that he's gone.

Well, this is a picture of our family. That's my husband, Irving Reinglas. My son-in-law on the left, Stephen Baker. My daughter, Jenatte Baker. My granddaughter, Alison Baker. Myself and my daughter Ann Reinglas on the right.

This is my granddaughter, Alison Baker. She's 12 years old, very artistic. She paints, she goes to special school. And I hope that she reaches her goals.