Tom Jaeger Shoah Foundation Testimony

If somebody calls me and says, I know I was supposed to see you tomorrow, but I just don't feel up to it, that's fine. I don't say, well, the man's going to be here, and you have to do it.

Can I just take the phone off the hook, Tom? I just have a line.

Yeah, sure. No problem. No problem.

March 9, 1996, interview with survivor Dr. Tom Jaeger, J-A-E-G-E-R. My name is Ben Nachman, N-A-C-H-M-A-N, interview conducted in Omaha, Nebraska, United States of America, in English. Can you give me your name, please?

Tom Jaeger, and that's spelled J-A-E-G-E-R.

And what was your name at birth?

It was Thomas Gellman, G-E- double L-M-A-N.

And what was your birth date?

August 19, 1940.

And what is your age today?

55.

What city were you born in?

Antwerp, Belgium.

Dr. Jaeger, can you tell me some of your family background?

Well, as best as I can recollect, as far as my father is concerned, he was born in Budapest. Lets see, July 19, 1895, and initially lived in Hungary for first, I think about the first 25 years, which also covered the time of the Austro-Hungarian involvement in World War I. He was a airplane mechanic, which was a little bit unusual as far as profession was concerned. And I know that after the war, eventually in 1926, he came to the States and stayed for about a year, but did not like it, and eventually returned back to Europe and wound up living in Vienna. And actually, he lived in Vienna, I guess from 1927 through 1938 or 1939, after the time of the annexation of the Anschluss. And at that time, being Jewish, of course, had to find a way to leave Austria. He had a sister, and I do know that, and she actually survived the war in Budapest. And I think the last communication, I've seen a letter that his sister, my aunt, would have written to my mother. So she did have family, she had children, so I have some cousins in Hungary or had some. I've really never been able to connect with them yet, but that's still a goal of mine.

My mother was born in Vienna, she was born on October 9th of 1902, and she's still living, and she'll be in this film a little bit later. She's going on 94. She comes from a family of eight siblings. There were four sisters and four brothers. The family originally came out of Galicia in a town called Sukhostav, which is in the region of western Ukraine around Lvov now. It was called Lemberg then. One day it was occupied by the Austrians and next by the Russians, and it was a kind of chaos. So eventually, I gather, there was some movement. In fact, I understand that my grandfather, my mother's side, eloped with his to-be bride in 1897, and that's how he got to Vienna, and that's where the family got established. My mother was, well, she was the third oldest of the girls. There were four girls, and they were the oldest in a family. And then there was one brother, the oldest brother. And then there was one brother, the oldest brother.

They, they were... They were... Is that ok? Alright. They were, they were from my grandfather's first wife cause she died in childbirth. And following that, eventually my mother became the head of the household because the three older, no, the two older girls got married and moved out of the house. So at 16, she eventually became the maternal figure for my uncles as they were the younger ones. And so from about 16 on, she basically raised the family for quite a few years. I know that she was married for the first time in about 1934-35. I think it was an arranged marriage, which didn't work out. He was from somewhere in Poland, and shortly, I think after a year or two, they did separate, divorce. She went back to Vienna. And I guess things moved along for a while. And then, of course, the business with the Anschluss and annexation eventually came on. The Nazis did take control of Austria, as I understand. And the year before, my grandfather had died, so nobody that was older was really around, so it was just my mother and the siblings. And starting in 38, the family started moving. The oldest sister, she was married, left via Switzerland, and they wound up in Israel. So we have some family, cousins, and that relationship, living in Haifa, and their children.

Ich kann nicht hören.

[whispers]: I have to explain to her. Du kannst nicht sprechen jetzt. Nein du darfst nichts hier- du darfst nicht reden. Sie machen ein Film Mutter. Später kannst du dann reden. Okay? Okay. I just explained that she really couldn't talk right now.

Anyhow, my mom, my mom stayed until '39 in Vienna. In the meantime, there had been some things that had happened. My youngest uncle was actually picked up in Vienna and deported to Dachau. And with that deportation, I think that accelerated things cause they did pay some money cause he was released yet. You could still do that in the early years. And as soon as that happened, they started... trying to get exit visas and get out of Europe. Actually, my mother and her next oldest sister were the two that stayed in Vienna the longest, trying to get everybody out, shipping everybody out.

And that's how my mom wound up in Antwerp, because Antwerp, of course, was an exit port. And I think she arrived there in March of '39. And if my memory serves me well, then sometime in late spring, the Germans come into the lowlands and, of course, cut off any possible exit. It's in Antwerp that my mother and father eventually get together. The community in Europe and in Antwerp, like everybody - everywhere else, used to gather around at these cafes because there wasn't much work that you could do. And people were always looking to get out and to have some kind of connection to get out. And that's where my father and mother actually met. When, eventually, they decided to get married. Now, the reason that my birth name is Gellman is that they could not have a civil wedding because I was already under the Germans. So they had a religious wedding in Europe, in many countries, to validate it, for it to be legal, and you also have to have a civil marriage, a civil ceremony, and they could not have that. So that's why my name on the birth certificate is Gellman.

In any case, I was born in Antwerp, and my father had already been picked up on a roundup of illegal emigres. And from what I understand, and this is something I've learned about more recently, was that he was deported. Well, not deported, but he was taken with a group of others in work brigades, and they were sent to France. And eventually, as I understand, he wound up in Drancy, which is a suburb of Paris. Last year, one of the things that I was able to find out was I had never really known where my father had been deported from. Some of my family members had said that he'd been deported to Gurs, which was a big camp in southern France. But when I looked at the book with the lists of deportees and everything that - or everybody that left Gurs, I didn't see his name. So we went looking again, and I eventually found, found out that he had been deported from Drancy. That was in October of '44, and he was deported to Auschwitz, and the presumption is that he was killed there in '44.

Now, in the meantime, my mother, who had been living in Antwerp, went back to Brussels. And at this time, almost all of her siblings had been able to get out, except for the sister who was a year older. They had come in about the same time as my mother, and in the summer of 1940, they had been in the country, in the Flemish part of Belgium. And during that time, the oldest daughter had drowned. So at that point, partly from what my mother recalls, has told me, she was very depressed, and they had lost a child, although her other daughter, who's my cousin in England, had been sent off on the children's transport to England. And so she was in England in a foster home, but my aunt and uncle, evidently, were very depressed, and my mother could not get my aunt to really move. And so, in 1942, when the Germans said that you had to go to Malines, Malines is another city in Belgium, which was the deportation site, it was the assimilation point, and the trains went from Malines to Auschwitz. She and my uncle, I - were deported and were killed in Auschwitz. But in the meantime, my mother has really always been kind of a organizer and survivor and very strong-willed individual, extremely strong-willed; very clear-headed. She had me, obviously, and things were pretty difficult. We lived in a part of Brussels that was near the main train station called Gare Du Nord. Gare Du Nord probably was a, somewhat of a Jewish ghetto. In terms of émigrés coming there and collecting around there and being near transportation. My mother had always told me that when she was walking around Brussels in terms of doing what she needed, getting food or things of that sort... That I was her yellow star. She never wore her yellow star. She was German-speaking. She wasn't blonde or anything. In fact, she had sort of dark brunette hair. But I was a platinum blonde, and I think I looked like the pro-typical Aryan child that the Germans were wanting to have. And so early on, my mother recounts that she would always wear. She would always carry me on the left side, which seemed to be the natural way to carry your child. She never had her yellow Jewish star. She never wore it. And so that went on for a while, but what she has told me, and my mother really never spoke about her experiences, not ever, except for one or two things. But by 19, I think I was hidden from March, around this time of 43, through liberation in 44. So that was about a year and a half, 18 months.

During that time, these were pretty difficult situations, to say the least. She recounts a particular incident that began to motivate her to start thinking about placing me because things were getting very dangerous. The Germans had what they called actions, which were really roundups, and what they would do systematically, as they portray in the Schindler's List, and that's a very accurate depiction. They would blockade, barricade a street, or several streets, and then they would go from building to building, and just round everybody up. And around Gare du Nord, or where my mother was living, it wasn't too hard to know that that's where the majority of Jews would be living. And there was this round up at one time, and the doors, the apartments in Europe and in Belgium, even until recently, were basically built where the bottom is wood and the top is glass. So it's half glass, and certainly, it's not clear glass, it's sort of opaque, but you could still look through, and it wouldn't be too hard to break in, in this particular building where we were living, for whatever reason, and it was just one of those things in life. There was this round up, and she tells me, you know, she's always told me the story that she had told me that when, even though I was pretty young, whatever age, I began to understand that when she pointed her finger to her lips, that I was not to make any noise, cause the one thing with, with noise, was that that would give you up. And on this particular occasion, she tells me that, she did that, she pointed her finger to her lips and said... I think in German, "Die böse Männer sind hier": the bad guys are here, or - and she would also say... "le sale boche", the dirty Germans in French, and she didn't really, she spoke some French, but German was her language that she spoke. And they knocked, and she did that, and for whatever reason they did not break the door down. And to me, that's an amazing event, because it would not have been that hard. That whole, that whole building was evacuated, and evidently, my mother and I were the only ones that were not rounded up. Shortly afterwards, I'm told that there was another woman in a neighboring street who had told my mother, you have to, you have to put him, you have to give him up. And at that point, my mother began to listen to her, because this woman had placed her two children, who were about five and eight, they were a little bit older, earlier. And they had placed, they had placed her, they had placed the children through a woman who I eventually did meet, and her name was Marianne, and Marianne was a teacher in a kindergarten, preschool teacher. And Marianne worked for the Underground in placing, there was a network in Belgium, and it was about five different organizations that worked together in placing children and hiding them. I think for the number, for the size of Belgium, the number of children saved about 4,000, it was per capita pretty high. And so what happened was my mother connected with this Marianne, and I guess they met a couple of times, and it was dangerous, because the rule of thumb was that if anybody was caught hiding children, they would equally be deported, there was no distinction, and this was a pretty high risk situation. And so, I guess one day I got placed with Marianne. And eventually I wound up in a, in a crèche, crèche is the French word for nursery, but it really was an orphanage, and it was run by a group of nuns called the Sisters of Mercy; and we have them here, Mercy Hospital here in town is run by one of the orders, the orders in that organization. And eventually one of requirements, as I understood later, that did happen was that we were baptized as part of that necessity at that time. And one of the things that I've appreciated was that in hiding, there were very few male children that could be hidden, cause it was much 'more dangerous in view of the fact that all Jewish male children are circumcised, and it's easier to hide girls than it was to hide boys, and certainly this was pretty dangerous for whoever was doing it. One of the things I know about the hiding is that I have very few memories about the hiding, about those eighteen months, it's only, there may be two things I really remember, well, three. The town selected me without anesthesia. I have, I have memories that it was not very pleasant, because I must have been, oh, about four by that time. And I remember a swollen belly, well, in view of what I do now, and being an adult, I know that that's associated with starvation, and there wasn't any food around, not very much, so I have this image of this big belly a little bit early in life, and the only other thing I really remember clearly is liberation. And I remember noise, and the excitement, and going out in the streets, and people shouting, we really didn't know what happened, but when they said we were being liberated, those are things I do remember.

And the only other sensory memory that I have, which I've since found out when speaking to other hidden children, is that actually being in some kind of church environment, going to mass, things like that, incense, things like that were memories of safety, cause clearly we weren't practicing any kind of awareness of Judaism since we were trying to hide that particular factor. And I guess those are just a few of the memories I really have that are clear, really not tainted by anything else that I've seen since. Now, after the war, the one thing that I've always wondered about, I don't remember meeting up with my mother. I would have thought, well, gee, I would remember that, but at that point she would have been a stranger to me, even language-wise. Cause one of the things that happened in hiding was that we acquired the language of hiding, wherever any one of us were hidden. So the language of hiding for me was French and Flemish, which is a version of Dutch. Although my mother tongue was German, but I don't think I really spoke much German while I was in hiding, certainly French and Dutch. After the war, I really, as I said, I really don't remember my mother coming to pick me up, I have no recollection. But one of the things that was going on as I appreciate now was that it was a very chaotic time to a point of people waiting to see who was coming back who... What happened, where anything was, and in terms of survival, I suppose, having a little four or five-year-old and trying to survive would have been very difficult, so my mother had put me in a foster home. And basically I found out recently then that I was there for close to two years after the war before coming to the States.

Two interview with Dr. Tom Jaeger. Dr. Jaeger, do you recall or have you ever heard what your mother was doing during this period of time when you were in hiding?

Yes, during the time that I was hidden, she was hidden in Belgium with two different families. She initially stayed with the family somewhere in the Flemish part of Belgium around Antwerp, but I think that lasted for about six months or so and somebody was becoming too curious. That's the one thing I do know and so she had to leave that family and eventually wound up with a pharmacist family and they lived in the Brussels area. So she was hidden for the majority of the time working in this family. My mother was always an excellent cook and that was a skill that she had learned early on and so basically what she did was she cooked for this family and stayed, was able to survive for the war without being caught, you know. So that's what happened with her and eventually we did get together, but she did place me in this foster home and this was in a suburb of Brussels. It's called Oudergem and this was a Flemish suburb. I guess I point this out because traditionally it was always said that the Wallons, which are the French-speaking Belgians, were the ones who hid most of the children and that was true, but there were some Flemish people involved as well, even in terms of the hiding, but in terms of what took place afterwards and this probably was probably the most, looking back, I really don't know what happened in my hiding days because and that's one of the reasons I think I've blocked it. I just don't know, but living with this family called the- their name was Utoehoven. This was a husband and wife and they had... two children, son and daughter. That was one of the most wonderful experiences I do remember. Now this was primarily a Flemish speaking family so I went from primarily French to Flemish, although they did speak French and they would use both languages, but Flemish was Dutch was the primary language and so I didn't know it. I didn't know it at that time but I was becoming a linguist just which is not a bad thing, but it was really a wonderful time because these were wonderful people. He was a conductor on the on the tram and it was the end of the line there where where we lived and so I always had that kind of association and she was a wonderful wonderful person and they treated me like their own child and it was wonderful too in view of the fact that they could they had some idea about the the need I suppose the psychology they weren't professional in any sense of but they were they were human beings they were mensch they were wonderful and I think well not I think but I know all my associations with that within that area have always been very very positive very very good ones and somehow they I know that and this was another thing I know that on weekends I would go with my mother my mother would pick me up or I would stay with my mother on weekends during that time and this was close to a two-year period and staying doing that I suppose I got reacquainted with my mom. I don't I don't know when my mom found out that my dad was, that, was not coming back I really don't know that but eventually I think she that that was factual it was something that she knew that he had been killed and had died in Auschwitz. died in Auschwitz. And at that time there was a group of survivors and they used to gather in a place called by the 'Anor' club, 'Et Noir' club and it was on Rue Neuve in, in Brussels Rue Neuve is like the main it's a narrow street but it has all these main shopping department stores and it's a big shopping center. And I always remembered this Café Nord because it was on a second floor and had a star of David on the outside.

When you were placed with this family, by your mother, was this through an organization?

Well, I believe it was through the same person who had initially hidden me and we had been involved in hiding this Marianne who was involved with the organization and at that point we were either going to DP camps if the parents haven't survived. Kids were being collected either to go to Israel or to to go to new new families so that that was happening but since my one parent had survived I didn't I wasn't involved in going that route and so there wasn't that kind of assistance. I know that my mother had contacted her family in the States as well and so they knew that she she had made it and she was alive and that she had a son which I don't think they they knew. So there was that kind of help from the I don't know what the name of the organization as such was but there was an organization. And again I've always I had kept I've always kept in touch with the family. I guess I can talk about that in just a little bit but this really was a wonderful experience this is uh I always I always describe it as a sea of sanity and in a very insane world because this particular area that I lived in the Square Antoine Vanlindt during the war there were six hidden children in about... three homes in that entire area and this really was it was a high number of children for a very small area and they all survived and they they really- and it was wonderful. In fact I had met up recently last year at the, attended a Conference on Hidden Children and at that time I met up with I hadn't met these folks before but this was a family whose parents had three hidden children in this tiny tiny house I mean- What I had found out was that this family had hidden these three children and within a small area what eventually had happened was that this whole square was involved in in the rescue and then the keeping the children away from the Germans and that was really amazing it was something that I could have really I guess only appreciate as I've gotten older in terms of what that all meant. What hap- my mother was doing, at this time I think that I think but I know she was working at the at the Noir Club. She she's an excellent cook in fact professionally she's been a chef. But... where everybody congregated, people would congregate by countries I suppose so if you came from Vienna and seemed to be a majority of people coming to this particular cafe Noir and that's where eventually she met up with some of the survivors that came back out of out of Austria out of Vienna. And, that's also where she eventually met my step-dad. And... For those couple of years then I would go on weekends and sometimes my mother was working and so it would be either my stepdad, future stepdad, and his best friend. They had been in Auschwitz and they had survived this is a, these are two people who are on the list of deportees are on a particular transport are marked 145 and 146 and he was there for over two years and really survived and he was such a bull of a man if it weren't for his friend Max he would have not have gone to this deportation but because Max was very, I don't know, always followed rules. Couldn't see that there was some danger in following those rules but my stepdad at that time went along with it and so they did survive and they came back and with this group then on some weekends I would go they would take me out to the ocean there was a resort called Blankenberge and it's on the English Channel it's right next to Ostend and that's where you take the ferry to England but I remember... I would go with them and I guess I did develop certain non-traditional tastes and one of the things that Belgians are known for are mussels. And so when we would go to the ocean what I wanted was mussels and french fries and remember that that I do remember. And, so I would have the non-traditional food that they, they would have too... And, I think, I have a memory with food sometimes one of the things that I know that is that my mom kept kosher after the war. Because I guess traditionally she had been kosher back in Vienna but could not be and so when I was with her I whatever was it would be it would be kosher but I wasn't into kosher and I wasn't into much that was very Jewish just because I wasn't really acquainted with anything that was really Jewish.

But that's what we would do on weekends and this relationship really became very close in fact these were my parents best friends Frieda and Max. Frieda was the woman he married and she had been one of Mengele's experiments and had had some ramifications from that but eventually they married. Eventually my mom and stepdad married. I stayed in an Oudergem for about two years and I remember the one thing I remember was leaving was really I guess my mother had said it was going to be an adventure and it was an adventure. I was six six and a half now but by that time I had it started attending school and in Oudergem and the school I attended was called the Transvaal because it was pointed out to me so that's how I know. And, I've had an opportunity to go look back on my first primer and whatever and I still don't know how but I was writing cursive at six and so I think they were pretty they were a little bit ahead of what we might be doing with six-year-olds here at that particular time. Anyhow, I think my mother prepared me and I'm sure that the Utoehovens did. But on the one hand it was really something I remember where it was it was sad not sad but I knew I was leaving something that was very comfortable for me and yet going on this new adventure to America.

And. We left via Gare Du Nord this is that big train station. I remember it was a- one of those classical European stations with a big glass on top and trains and what have you really left an electric train it wasn't a noisy one it was electric train. We went up to Rotterdam because that's where the ship was leaving and we got on board came over to the States we landed here on December 31st of '46. New Year's Eve and the wonderful wonderful experience wonderful time. I was six-year-old speaking Dutch and this was a Dutch ship and boy I had it I, I was it was like an adventure I don't think my mother could keep up with me and she couldn't go where I could so it was really a fun time. But we landed here in Galveston actually so I'm a Texan by where where I got off the boat so to speak. And, one of my uncles a Rudy had come down from New York to meet us in Galveston, and he didn't know what a surprise was in store for him because, I don't know, I always remember myself as being fairly quiet and pretty well behaved. But boy, when I got on that boat something changed because I must have been the archetypical hyperactive whatever. Anyhow he picked us up and this was a sleeper that went from well we went from Galveston to St. Louis and St. Louis to New York and Pennsylvania the old Pennsylvania Railroad. I must have done anything and everything on that train and that I do remember I mean I I went into sleeping coaches woke people up went up climbed up went all over the place anyhow after a long trip for him we made it we made it to New York and met the family. And, initially we stayed with, in an apartment, with my uncle Ed and Danny and my aunt Theresa. And so we moved in so there were five of five of us in that apartment. And so that would have been in '47 and we stayed there till about '50, I think 1950 about 3 years.

How are these how is this aunt and uncle related?

Ok, these were the younger siblings of my mother's and the boys Eddie and Danny would have been raised by my mom because their mother died after childbirth too. So that would that was the connection and my uncle Rudy was married at that time and my uncle Gus was married and had had two children as well at that point already so that I guess that's how we wound up with my two uncles and my aunt because they were still single. And during that time my mother had kept in contact with my stepfather and eventually he came over in 1950, so he was there for another 3 years. And then about a later Max and Frieda immigrated as well to the States so the group that had met after the war had stayed together and come pretty much to the same city and things things like that and that was a little bit of a support system for everybody. And it was a rough time I mean wasn't rough for me but I know that economically it was a rough time it was very hard; when I came here I went to school almost immediately I went to P.S. 173 in Washington Heights in New York and that's very close to the George Washington bridge and I had this extremely clever teacher there who said well if you teach me French I'll teach you English. She had some knowledge of French and I think within three months I really wasn't speaking French in class and obviously from looking back at my primer I was way ahead in terms of what I already could do so it wasn't the work that would have been a problem. And I really learned the language very rapidly, although at home we always spoke German and so it was a bilingual kind of language family as far as during the time that I was growing up. Didn't speak Yiddish, Yiddish was not the language of my my folks, German was. Eventually I learned Yiddish when I started listening to a radio station called WEVD which was a Yiddish language station and so that's where I put the two together I said this sounds very familiar that's how that's where I eventually learned Yiddish. And, but at home we spoke German and I didn't I really didn't use my French almost as soon as I got here to the States and after that first year for some reason, my mother decided that I needed to have a Jewish education so she sent me to a Jewish parochial school, Yeshiva. Which was a little different because I know I had been exposed to Catholicism in terms of knowing the rites and being comfortable, things like that. I had an interesting experience at Yeshiva this was a fairly orthodox it was tied in with Yeshiva University and its graduates usually went on there. By the time I was in the sixth grade I said I couldn't take this anymore, and so I tried my darndest to get myself kicked out or do something but this was not going to to be for, for me. And fortunately, I don't know fortunately, but eventually my mom allowed me to go to public school, junior high in seventh grade. But I know that it was a difficult time because on the one hand my folks really were not religious and in a sense of attending synagogue or I I would have to say there's a lot of cynicism skepticism not that they ever... backtalk but, talk badly about about the religion or God or not that that came up but there was just a lot of skepticism. And they never went and they always sent me I always thought that that was wrong so anyhow that was my elementary school education which I which I did find difficult and not the work but just I don't know why it was too much of a contrast. Although I suppose they thought it was a balance that I needed; and we moved into our own apartment it was a very nice that was a nice thing and one of the things I always remember, and they, you, if you speak, if you speak with anybody who's been hidden through the war, this cleanliness aspect of living is so paramount and literally you could eat off the floor of my mother's apartment and our friend's apartment cleaning. I mean it was it was like they had their own their own and I could never understand it at that time I said it is clean and you can eat off the floor it's not clean enough things like that but that came out of their hiding experience. That the adults had had and cleanliness was really supreme you know having a shower having a bath having all of this available, anyhow...

The family was was in New York most of them except for the family in Israel and my cousin in, in England, and I grew up in Washington Heights, Washington Heights is an area where people like Henry Kissinger grew up and so it was a it was a immigrant well there were a lot of immigrants a lot of German speaking immigrants and it seemed to have settled in that particular area whether from Germany or from Austria. And it was, it was a great place it was very comfortable it was a nice place and a very safe, eventually one of the things I know was that my mom never spoke about her experiences I I think the fact that I knew that she was hidden might have come out once but she really never spoke and I I don't know if I thought about it consciously I really didn't one of the things I always thought was odd was that when I was, oh yes, in my elementary school days I and this WEVD this Yiddish station somehow my mother always was all pushy so not pushy but she wanted me to be exposed to things that I hadn't been. So music was one of them, so at six years of age I get volunteered to play the violin. In hindsight that that was okay because eventually I stayed with it for twelve years and went to a special school in New York City called the High School of Music and Art and that was based on what I had done as I've been exposed to by my mom and forced to do so I didn't regret that but those kinds of things took place and then she said well you've got a voice so let's train you so I got involved with a professional choir and so on holidays, high holidays on Passover, we would go sing at Grossinger's or The Breakers and places like that.

Reel 3 interview with Dr. Tom Jaeger.

Going back to school and things like that, I attended junior high school and that was a great experience after Yeshiva. Although this was a reverse situation in New York, I actually was a small group of white kids that integrated this school as it turned out. But what happened was at that time there was a program in the city to get the most seasoned and best teachers and just raise the level of education at these schools that had really either not been exposed to that or had had problems. So it was one of the lucky things where I sort of lucked out and really enjoyed it. And then went to high school at the High School of Music and Art. And that was a most unique school. Again, one of those things where you have wonderful memories. Our curriculum was six hours of heavy duty academics and three hours of either music or arts or the creative expression. And I think that related to at least a lot of us from the hidden experience have found that the majority of us are either into the expressive arts, creative arts, or we're into the healing arts. And so I think the psychology of that somehow fit in and it really was a great experience.

Eventually went on to New York University. And again, those were interesting years. I'd gotten a Regent's Scholarship, so that made it possible financially, at least partially, to do that. And then I was working through those years and never really regretted that. I always thought that was a great way to do college. And unfortunately, I had an uncle who, this uncle who married my Aunt Teresa, who was a physician. And somehow he had an influence on my decision making, I think, greater than I really imagined because I really admired him. I had this fixation that I had to go into medicine. And I say it's a fixation because nowadays things are changing and who knows what. But actually, I was at NYU and my family had been in textiles of one sort or another. And I was working summers and part-time at a firm called Einiger Mills, and they were a big cashmere house. And actually, I was scheduled to, I was accepted at a place called Philadelphia Textiles Institute. And I was going to be a textile engineer. And I don't know what happened, whether it was my uncle's influence or whatever else. But I said, no, I don't think I'm going to go there. I'm going to go to NYU anyhow. That was long and the short of it.

Afterwards, I worked a couple of years as a lab technician in serology in Lincoln Hospital, which was in the war zone in New York City, in the South Bronx. It's the hospital that was used in the Godfather One, where he got shot and he's placed. That was the place. It looked as bad as it was depicted. But I was working in the lab and what have you and started thinking, well, this just wasn't going to be it. I wasn't going to just be happy being a lab technician and what have you. So I got a little bit motivated. There were a lot of things happening. I suppose I should have maybe studied a little harder, gotten slightly better grades. But I wasn't, I didn't do too badly, but I probably wasn't where I should have been. But then became aware of an opportunity in Belgium, and that is that I could go to Belgium and attend one of the universities there for the equivalent of $125 a year. And not really having the funds otherwise, eventually that's what happened. And I wound up attending the Catholic University of Leuven in, Leuven, Belgium. This is a very interesting school. It's a school that Erasmus taught at, so it's over 600 years old. And it's what's considered a papal college, so it was established by the Vatican that many years ago, and it has a very significant history.

Was language a barrier at this time?

Well, I had taken French in high school and college, but I really wasn't speaking French. I was doing it the way most of us in the States would as a second language, and it was somewhat scattered. But having made the decision at that time, I had been, I had married in 1964. And after talking with Ellen, who was then my wife and what have you, we decided we would go ahead and do this. Well, I did immerse myself in a French language course. And I'd have to say that within a shorter period of time, much of my French from my hidden experience years started to come back, because my ability to speak French was pretty close to that of a native Belgian. So eventually that came back pretty rapidly. And Leuven is located in a Dutch-Flemish-speaking part of the country, and so eventually that came back as well. And so I'd have to say that even though I was there as an American, I really was there as a Belgian. I was pretty well integrated. We were. We lived in a, we didn't live in an apartment, we lived in a house in one of the suburbs and really adapted, and that was a very good experience. And it was very interesting, though, that even though we were living in Belgium, I was pretty much not talking about anything. And if you will, I was still in a hidden kind of mode. I knew certain things. I knew I didn't want to go to Malines, which was the deportation site. And I knew I didn't want to go to Breendonk, which was an old Belgian fort that had become a German-Nazi prison. And those were two sites I didn't want to do. What I did do was I met up with Marianne and Marianne, who had placed me. I did that almost immediately. That's about the only time I came out of hiding from that experience, because I wanted to meet her. And I wanted to let her know what had become of one of her kids, one of her children. And I knew her address. I guess my mother saw it had the old address. It was 96 Rue de la Poste, and that's off a main boulevard with this beautiful Romanesque church right in the middle of the street. So I had this memory, and maybe that's one of the memories I did have that I recall. And so I met up with her and introduced myself, and I really, that, that was wonderful.

Was that an emotional meeting?

Oh, yeah. Emotional just for her to see. Not so much emotional, because I could remember much about her, but enough for her to see, and out of respect. Because she, along with the others, had saved quite a few children. So that was emotional. And then I had caught up with the family in Oudergem. And during the years that we were there, we stayed in touch. We saw them. And so that was good, too. That was fun emotional, because that had always been a safe place, and it had always been a good place for me. My feelings, in terms of being in Belgium, I always felt very good. I mean, on the one hand, it had been a bad place in some terms of people not coming back, but still there had been however many that had been saved, and that's something to be appreciated. So I've always had very good, fond feelings from that point of view. And we had met some people on and off, especially for the Jewish holidays. I would go in to Brussels, and there's a synagogue in Brussels called the Dutch Synagogue. It was built in 1805, and it's a very classical type structure of European synagogues. And... when I was still living in Belgium after the war, there was a park there, and there was a site you would congregate, and people would – I guess they did go to – I don't know if they went to services, but somehow they were at that park. And when I went there for the first time, I had a déjà vu. I said, oh, I know this park. I know this. I know where the synagogue is. And so I did have that memory. And that was good. I mean, those were good kinds of memories, and we really had a wonderful experience.

I graduated... in, technically in '71, but you have to have your internship in Europe before you graduate, whereas here in the States, you graduate, then you do your internship. So we went to Canada for a, Saskatchewan place called Saskatoon, did a year of internship up there. That's where our daughter was born. And went back, took my final exams, and my exams in Europe are a lot different than they are here. They're oral exams. Can't check it off. They have this unique experience. It's called a public reading of whether you pass or fail. It's called a public execution. And we did this for five years because I went to school for five years, went back. to school for five years, went back.

And after that, eventually did a surgical - first year surgical residency at Boston City Hospital in the Tufts Surgical Service because I was going to be a urologist. And then I went up to, where did I go? Oh, University of Minnesota Ramsey Medical Center, the Urology Program. And while I was there, I got derailed and found myself eventually going into psychiatry and what I am nowadays, as I'm a child adolescent psychiatrist. And I don't think that's accidental when I think back and when I look back at choices and reasons why. That's also, incidentally, how I came to Nebraska. I did it at University of Nebraska Medical Center in a place called MPI, which is no longer in existence. And I took my general psychiatry and fellowship and child and stayed around. And that's really what I do.

I noticed that there are a few things that have happened as I look back, just looking at things. I'm the psychiatrist for the archdiocese. So there's always been a real connection between myself and Catholicism indirectly or somehow or directly. I went to Catholic University of Leuven. And I have to say that that certainly was one of the most liberal sites of education, contrary to what sometimes people think about Catholic education. Catholicism in the lowlands is very different sometimes than it is elsewhere. And maybe that was also one of the reasons why so many children were saved when you look back. And so what I do, I think, reflects a lot of what I've always been exposed to indirectly. Certainly, the hidden experience shapes some of things in terms of who I advocate for, who I look out for, who I sometimes why I want to stay a child. I don't know if that's a way of getting some memories back, but I'm sure there's a connection there. I haven't sat down on the analyst chair lately, so I'm not sure I can quite say where that's coming from. And I'm trying to think.

I think the only other thing that happened that was notable was in 1990, that's when the first Conference on Hidden Children came about. Ellen, my wife, has always been aware that I've had this European experience, but as I indicated, none of us really ever spoke about it, for whatever reason, whether we didn't think it was significant or whatever else. But in 1990, she saw this in New York Magazine that there was going to be a conference, and she said, we're going. In fact, one of the friends that we've befriended here, Fred Kader and his wife, we told Fred that we have to go to this conference, and we did. And this was an amazing conference.

Were you a little bit reluctant prior to the conference?

Well, you just didn't. Well, I mean, I never. I don't know if it was reluctance, so just it wasn't something that I did. I didn't think that my story was that important. I think the importance of it looms in terms of the fact that, indirectly or directly, we are the real last link between the Shoah and, you know, here we are. I like the Israeli, I like the Hebrew word for, you know, in spite of Davka. We're really the population that Hitler's ultimate goal was to eradicate, but we're still here. So I think from that historical perspective, I appreciate the fact that it's important to say, you know, here we are. We were here. Something did happen. Because there's a lot of revisionism going on, and I think we do have to bear witness, I guess. And I've done a little bit of that in terms of speaking, but I wasn't looking to do that. And I think when my wife said we were going, that really was a wonderful experience. We went and our daughter, who lived in Boston, she attended Brandeis at that time, met us there. And it really was a great experience. If you came from, if you didn't know what that group was, you would have thought you were in Europe, because one of the things that happened was that people who hadn't been in Europe, for God knows how many years, met each other and would speak to each other in a language that they were hidden in. And, you know, that's like a babble of European languages. So it really, and I thought that was really significant. I think it was helpful. I guess I got a chance to explain to my daughter a little bit of what I knew, a little bit of the family history. And we've gone to a few meetings since.

And last year in Belgium, the one thing I hadn't known, I hadn't discovered was, well, where I was hidden, which I did find out, who did the hiding. I had always had a memory of ladies with these big white swan hats, which were the nuns and Sisters of Mercy. Yeah, they did have white swan hats, as we called them. And finding out that I was hidden under my given name, because it was a good Belgian name, things like that. So some of those pieces came together, and for whatever reason, there's some completion. And I think there was some closure for me, because one of the things I had always realized, as I've said earlier, when I was with this choir and we used to go on holidays, you asked me if I, you asked me before if I felt different, if there was something significant. The only thing I ever really remembered was that, well, I think I was, Well, from whatever age I was, I know that at Yahrzeit I would say Kaddish, but I'd never met the person that I was saying Kaddish for. I had a picture, I knew that. And it always seemed odd to me, because I would see these adults, and they would say Kaddish, and when you left the, you know, at that part of the service where you have Yizkor, kids usually left, but I always noticed that I was one of the few, in fact, I think I was the only kid who would always say Kaddish. So, you know, if I knew anything, it was from that point of view. But I think things haven't been, things have been good with the conference and last year in Brussels. I thought that was very important, because then I found out about my dad. And, because that was like the missing piece, you know, because I knew you existed, but you disappeared, you've even disappeared from their lists, their famous lists, and so that was good. And we caught up with the family, and caught up with my foster, my foster family's sister, and got together with her, and also got together with the neighbor who lived on, right next to me, number one, Pierre. He's about five years older, he's 60. And when I went to look for him, when I went to approach him, he actually knew who I was, he said, Tom. And I thought that was a little bit of an interesting shocker, but he did. And so there's been some closure, and the last time we were in Belgium was about 11 years ago, so hopefully this next time will be a lot shorter, because I think there's some really wonderful people over there. And that's been good.

This experience, then, of going to this reunion has been good for you.

Excellent, excellent. And for some people, it was really difficult, because one of the things that you do is you eventually do some group work, and I don't know what it is, but whoever wound up in England got the short end of it. And some of the hidden children that wound up in England all have major tsuris, many. And then when you look at it, we wound up here in the States, and we're a much more open society. And when you talk about being hidden, kids who wound up in England, that's such a closed society. It never existed, it never happened, you know. So, relatively speaking, I think, the fact that we wound up here was very fortuitous. And that's about the experience, and I do stay in contact, and I imagine that we'll be attending some of these other meetings, because it's a good way to. We're a little different, I realize that. On the one hand, a lot of us are very, we've been very successful, and you wonder, you know, well, aren't you a little nuttier, neurotic, or something, but I imagine we are neurotic. I'm sure that our spouses and our children probably have to deal with that. In fact, they started talking about the effects on the second and third generation. But I guess I consider myself pretty lucky, and I'm relatively glad about, you know, the kinds of things I get to do, especially with children, and I'm sure that that all goes back to whatever happened those early years.

Do you feel that you're growing up years, and what you've lived through in your lifetime has had an effect on your professional work?

Well, it really does. I deal with a lot of abused children, and it's a different kind of trauma, but it's trauma of similar impact. And I guess that's something that I choose to do. Maybe, I don't know that I have any special insights, but I have some sensitivity to it.

When you think back of what you've gone through in a lifetime, and what you've accomplished in a lifetime, is there a message that you would like to pass on?

Well, I think if there is a message, it's one has to try one's utmost, even in the most difficult of times. And the one thing that I always look for is looking for that element of decency, using the Yiddish word of being a mensch in an individual, is of utmost importance. I think that's what I'm always looking for, to some degree, that maybe that's what I've learned to value, because there were a group of people who had more than decency but the courage to extend that. And so, it's important to carry that kind of light, and not the whole world is that ugly or is that terrible. There's some very decent people, decent human beings. Otherwise, I wouldn't have been here.

On behalf of the Foundation, I'd like to thank you for allowing us to come into your home, to pull out memories, and probably many of which you would like to not bring up at this time. But thank you from the Foundation, as well as from myself personally, for allowing us to conduct this interview.

Thank you Ben. It was a pleasure.

I'm here with Dr. Tom Jaeger. Dr. Jaeger can you introduce your wife for us?

Yes, this is my wife Ellen Ann Jaeger and we've been married for 31 and a half years.

Mrs. Jaeger can you tell me how these years have affected your marriage, your life?

Well it's been a very interesting 31 and a half years. I always thought I was going to be a New York girl never getting out of the city and I spent five years abroad and in Canada and I never took anything for granted after the first move.

Have these experiences in going back to Belgium had an effect on your life?

Well it was very important for for Tom to go back last year. I think we both knew that he was going to find things out, or we were hoping that that was going to happen. It was an especially moving trip because we did find out so much and there was some closure. It was always a pleasant experience to be in Belgium even though we complained about it a little bit sometimes the first five years that we were there but it was it was a nice place, good people and we always felt comfortable. It was a place where he came from and where he, he was saved.

Can you add anything to that Dr. Jaeger?

Well Ellen during the years that we were in Belgium actually worked over there and really we I said we had integrated I thought much better than many other folks did. She always made it easier being there I mean I never lost fact of the fact that we were Americans and Jewish. I just want to if I look back a little bit and try to understand when you identify a little bit more closely with your roots I think being in a Catholic country that's very respectful but still makes you more aware of your own traditions and roots. I always thought that that happened in fact Elle- Ellen would well we had some of our fellow American students at Leuven and the first Passover we were there we had 20 some odd-

We had the largest kitchen.

People over, Ellen making Pesach and-

Have never done so before.

And everything else that came with that. There was always a place where a lot of people congregated. I think we we really grew I thought that was yeah we really grew.

There were no outside influences it was just us.

Had to be a good time in your life?

Yes it was.

It was. It was a very good time.

Well I want to thank you for allowing us to interview you along with your husband.

Thank you.

Dr. Jaeger can you introduce your mother for us.

Yes this is my mother Mrs. Norma Werker she goes by Emma if you would like to and she was born a Gellman and that's who she is.

Mrs. Werker I would like to ask you if you can recall when you had to give your son up to be a hidden child?

I'll translate that. Erinnerst du dich, wann tun-, wann du hast mich weggegeben zu dem Marianne? Erinnerst du? Er will wissen. Darfen -darf von -Können Sie ersehen. Can you explain to him. It's important here.

I can't.

Do you remember?

Yes.

Okay. You speak to him.

Und was ihr spricht?

Wann ich war versteckt. Erinnerst du dich? Erzählen. Ja es ist wichtig. Es ist wichtig. Go ahead.

Ja. [Unclear] It's very hard. It's very hard.

Can you tell Mr. Nachman how it came about?

About what?

Hiding me. Wie so- wie so hast du mich versteckt?

Oh. [Unclear] I don't know. I don't.

It's a very difficult time.

I can't tell you... because heart hurts, but he was in good hand.

Do you remember the day that they came into the apartment building to round up everybody. Wenn sie Deutschen sind gekommen. Erinnerst du dich auf den Tag. Wenn sie am jeden gennabt nur nicht.

Where.

Die Deutsche- die Deutschen.

In Deutschland?

Ja

I wasn't in Deutschland.

No no no, nicht die Deutschen. Erinnerst du dich in Belgien wenn sie Deutschen sind gekommen?

Oh sure.

Erzählen der von.

Es schwer... I don't know. It was terrible. No, wir waren von versteckt.

Ja, ja.

Yes, we were some place. And then we... where we go...?

Wo warst du versteckt? Where were you hidden?

Don't know. It's very hard. It's very hard.

Do you remember-

I went with. I remember. I was. Belgium, Belgium people. I was working there. Yes.

Do you remember when you were reunited, with your son?

I don't know - don't know it.

No no no, Erinnerst du dich, wenn du hast wieder? Wann wir sind die zusammen gekommen? Nach dem Krieg.

Nach dem Krieg?

Ja. Wir so- wir so sind 4 dann zusammengekommen? Hast du gewusst wo ich war.

I was always. On the. To know where- the people they, took him. And she, I was always with them. And she, took care.

So they told her, where I was... Hidden. That was Marianne.

It was terrible.

Well thank you very much. For appearing with your son on camera.

Okay. Say thank you dear.

Thank you.

Dr. Jaeger can you explain this photograph to me.

This picture is a picture of my mother and myself. And it's just prior to being hidden, in the crèche. I would have been just going on three years of age. The importance of this picture was that my mother never wore her yellow star with the letter J which is what the Jews were given. And she had always told me that the fact that I was a platinum blonde, Aryan looking, child, was her yellow star and was the one factor that allowed her to probably escape from being rounded up by the Germans.

Can you explain this photograph for me?

This is a picture of the, crèche. The orphanage that I was hidden in. It was titled the Maison d'Enfants Reine Marie-Henriette which means it's Queen Marie Henriette. And this was on the Rue de la Flèche around the Gare Du Nord. And this was our hiding place for 18 months.

And it ties in with the. Can you tell me about this photograph?

This is a photo of the, area that I had stayed in, in in the foster home after the war. This is the square is called the Square Antoine Vanlindt, And it's a Flemish area of Belgium. There were about 16 houses in this square and this is the square that had six hidden children during the war with, all the neighbors involved in being supportive, hiding the children when the Germans came around, looking for them and just, really being the sea of sanity in the world that that had gone insane.

Doctor can you tell me about this photograph?

This is a picture of my foster mother. Mrs. Utoehoven. This is, with one of her nephews actually. As I, look at that picture. But one thing I do remember was that I had said before she was so insightful, I never called them mom and dad, they were aunt and uncle to me. That's how that's how they always... asked me to address them. And that's my aunt.

Can you tell me about this photograph?

This was a picture taken last year in ninety five when we were at the hidden children conference in Brussels. This is in Oudergem and this is in the square that I had lived in. I had lived in the number two and this woman lived in number four. As it turns out she was one of the people whose family was also involved in hiding some of the children when the Germans would come around and be looking for them.

How did she, greet you when you first came there?

Well she was very curious about why we were taking pictures and what we were doing there. And eventually we struck up a conversation and explained why I was here, and then, she indicated to us that the people that I was looking for, that one of them was living around the corner and then she also directed us to a house almost directly opposite where the three hidden children were during the war. So she she really perked up and she was very happy and it was it was a wonderful meeting. And in fact if you look at the picture she's really smiling and it was a good good thing.

Can you tell me about this photograph?

This is a picture of the daughter of the, and her husband, of the family that lived in... this particular Square Antoine Vanlindt. This was at number 16. During the war, their mother was initially approached by a man and his daughter. And he had just walked up to their mother and said you have to take my child because if they're going to take, they're going to nab me they're going to take me. And so this woman said OK I'll meet you at a particular time, and apparently another person overheard the conversation and they were there with their child even before this other one was supposed to be, and so that evening there were two children that came into their home and then eventually the other daughter also was brought into the home. So there were two girls and one boy that lived there for at least three years that were hidden there and the two girls are now living in Israel. This couple has been there on two occasions and one of the one of the hidden children is a physician as well. And the boy lives in the in Brussels. So it was really wonderful to catch up with their story.

Dr. Jaeger can you tell me about this photograph.

This is a photograph that was taken in May of '95. This is at the memorial for the Jews that were deported from Belgium. There's a total of about twenty five thousand altogether and outside of this memorial what you're seeing here is a memorial to the partisans who were killed during the war. And the thing that struck me so vividly was that when we could get a hold of a weapon that those of us that could actually fought and died. And this is what this is. It's a memorial to the partisan the Jewish partisans who were killed during World War Two in Belgium. And it was at this particular memorial when we visited that there was an individual there who is a keeper and there's a little bit of a crypt at the memorial. And he said why don't you come down and take a look and see what some of this is all about. And we did. And I explained to him that I had not been able to locate from where my father had been deported. And he said there's a book for everything. And he opened up a book that was under a glass case and he looked up my father's name. And that's where I discovered for the first time that he had been deported from Drancy in France in October of '44.

I'm sure she's your pride and joy. Dr. Jaeger can you tell about this photograph?

Yes this is a photo of our daughter Michelle. Michelle is twenty four soon to be twenty five in May. She resides in Boston and attended Brandeis University and continues to work in Boston currently as an assistant editor but probably shortly changing positions. Oh I'm sorry in June excuse me. What our daughter does is she is involved in crew and started to become involved in crew while at Brandeis. She still continues to do so. She's a coxswain for one of the community rowing teams and this past year was involved with the Head Of The Charles which is like the world series of crewing. And we were there to see her last October and it was really exciting. She enjoys it and she's very dedicated to it. Currently she's single and if you know anybody- no! She is enjoying her life and we get to see her about two two two three times a year. So we know that she's very happy and she is our pride and joy.

Can you tell me about this photograph?

This is a photo which is probably taken around 1946. It's at the seacoast in Blankenberge. The woman on my right is my mother who you've seen in the video. And next to her is Frieda. Frieda Weintraub. Frieda and my mother and my mother's husband Paul and Frieda's husband Max all became very close friends. Frieda was a victim of Mengele's experiments in Auschwitz and she did survive the war and this is a picture taken at that time. I'm in the middle obviously and I must be about five years old at that point; five or six.

Can you tell me about this photograph?

This picture is also taken around 1946. The man in the lighter jacket is my stepfather Paul Werker. And the man in the darker jacket is his very best friend Max Weintraub. They had been friends in Vienna and had come to Belgium to try to escape. In 1942 when the Germans ordered everybody to go to Malines for deportation Max was always the fellow who was insistent on following the law and the rules. And my stepdad was the one who said he really didn't want to and didn't trust him but because his best friend was going to go he went with him and this is a situation where they were both deported to Auschwitz. I think my stepfather was number 145 on this transport and Max was number 146. After the war when you look at the book of the deportees from Belgium 25,000 of which only about a thousand came back you see an R for returned behind both of their names and during the time that they were in Auschwitz from the stories of my stepfather had told and things he had recounted. He was a bull of a man, an ox of a man and he had been able to ensure that both of them survived that ordeal. They incidentally died within three days of each other in 1987.

Can you explain this photograph for me?

This is a picture taken at the Hidden Children Convention in May of '95. The woman that you're looking at is Madame Jost. Madame Jost is in her late 70s now but she was the one of the key critical persons who was involved with the underground. And in rescuing almost more than 4,000 children during the war. This is a woman who is of Flemish background and she is as strong-willed as I am, a woman made out of steel because she was an individual that the Germans always suspected but never apprehended.

And this is you standing next to her?

That's myself standing next to her and right to her right is Dr. Fred Kater who is another hidden child out of Belgium. In Belgium.

Can you tell me about this photograph?

This is a picture taken in May of '95 at the Hidden Children Conference in Brussels. The woman whom I'm standing next to is Madame Herscovici and she was also one of the critical organizers of the underground in rescuing the hidden children. She was a native Belgian who became involved about the same time as Madame Jost. Eventually she married a Jewish man and that's who she is. She's Madame Herscovici and she was critical in also organizing this initial conference in 1990.

Can you tell me who this cat is?

Yes, this picture was taken in May of '95 and this is the grandson of a cat that I had when I stayed with my foster family in Ouderge. My cat's name was Lucky and Lucky also was black with a perfect white diamond. This cat is the grandson and its name is Tommy and my foster sister, Cecile, had told me that obviously it was named after me and this cat is now 20 years old.