Kitty Williams Survivor Testimony (Part III)

Three interview with Katherine Williams. Kitty you were saying that your father dug this box up that he'd been buried in your backyard.

He couldn't live with with himself breaking the law and he dug up the box and it was empty and we will never know who took it. I would imagine the next-door neighbor who was still alive alive last time I was home and I accused him of doing so and he denies it and he claimed that he was in the war at that time which I'm sure that he wasn't and he's the only one that could have seen it because we were it was a corner lot and that was the only neighbors that had access of seeing it. And in defense he just kept telling me Kati, which is like I said it when I, like Kitty. Please come back live here and this is your land and this is this is where your house was and you know, please come back. We would welcome you. But but I am just just a hundred, ninety-nine percent sure that it had to be him.

Getting back to the ghetto, when you were, just before you're being transported away from there. How are you being treated in that ghetto?

It was tolerable. It was it was almost better than being in our home. It seemed like while we were confined in our own home. It was sort of free for all that all the hoodlums that Arrow Cross young men. They just had a good shot at us to do whatever vandalism they could they could do or name calling, they delighted in. But I sort of recall almost like a little protection where we were. The Hungarian police was, some of them were pretty decent. I don't recall any really any any brutality. Not even when the two young men, thanks to me, was arrested. I don't recall any any rough handling. But you know the Jews themselves we resented them. Ourselves, which is...

Did you recognize any of these Arrow Cross members as been neighbors?

Some of them I probably did because I knew everyone almost everyone in town. It was, you know, I don't recall particularly like names or anything but at the time I remember expressing surprise or my father did look who was here and it was mostly the younger people.

Were there any Arrow Cross members that had come from other towns?

Um, I'm I don't recall. Not to my knowledge.

How long were you in this ghetto then before you were transported away?

Yeah, probably was maybe two weeks.

And this was about in June of 1944 and where were you transported to from that place?

And we were transported straight to Auschwitz. And I don't recall how long it took. I know it was much more than a week. Yeah, the train moved extremely slowly. My father who was very well traveled and he recognized the territory. He knew we were going through what mountains we were going to we were going ea- we were going north and we were to go back to the fact we were putting them in the in the wagons and- We hardly had I don't remember how many people, probably about 80. I know that we didn't have room to really lie down. We laid on more or less on top of each other. We were given as I recall a couple of buckets one with water, one for toilet. And at first we had some modesty left and I remember holding up a sheet or something before somebody used the toilet but later it really didn't matter and I have never seen a dead body before I was very shielded as a young girl and that's the first time I have seen anybody dying right in the wagon. The heat was unbearable I-I just I can't even describe it to you what it was how you know once in a while somebody would be lifted up and to look out to see where we were but you know what what country or what territory. And we knew that the direction we were going and we knew that it were very mountainous. And we were passing through Czechoslovakia. And yet the trip like like it it took forever, but I remember at one point, before we left the Hungarian border, the Germans took it we were we were turned over to the Germans and the German soldiers came, opened the door of the wagon and and and said: If anybody has any valuables now is the time give it up because you're going to go through an x-ray machine anyhow and whoever is hiding anything will be shot so better do it now, you know and and so my father and I you know, we talked about what shall we do about the money in the shoe and we decided to give it to them.

So with some kind of whatever pocket knife or something he had he took out the money the rest of the wagon, the people they were divided in in opinion as to whether we were right or wrong they were they were blaming us that that's why we're in trouble people like you who's hiding things when you know you're not supposed to do this. And there are people who understood and so my father who as I said, he spoke German and and could get along with the German soldiers and handed it to them and they they left in a few hours later they came back and they had bread. I couldn't tell you long, like this French loaf type of bread. Probably 60 loaves like like, that everybody could have a loaf of bread, which was you know by that time we were completely out of food and they gave us water. And from then on and the rest of the trip, we were getting bread where nobody else was and almost, you know ample supply, and water. And then everybody of course in the wagon, they did a turn about it and they thought you know we were we were just like my father was just great for doing it. Of course other people had had some jewelry. But this you know, these soldiers can go out and five thousand dollars pengos which was about the same as five thousand dollars here and this was five thousand in these shoes. So you can imagine that what they profited, you know what a few loaves of bread you know did did for us and and and what ten thousand dollars did for them.

But this this instance or this seem like it haunted me all the time until I really believed that there was such a thing as that people were gassed. I was ever so naive that all the time while I was until I was liberated and even long after that the picture in front of me was one and only one thing, that my father and see it was always muddy in in in Auschwitz and and my vision was that I seeing him with this shoe sole you know torn off, that he's in the mud. He's getting cold. And my poor father is you know is suffering, he's getting cold and it was that I naturally I always blame everything on myself. That maybe we, you know, we shouldn't have done it. It and of course none of us got back our own shoes in the first place. I didn't so how could I think that he was treated differently, you know, I could not believe that that he could have been killed and he never needed the shoes.

Before you were sent to Auschwitz on this in these trains had you heard of Auschwitz before or heard any rumors of what had been taking place?

Well, I have heard a little. But again we could not believe that it can be true. We thought it was people makeup stories, but my oldest sister I didn't know if I mentioned it my next to my oldest sister who lived in in Budapest wasn't married or widowed by then. Her husband, you know, also killed in a forced labor like all Jewish young men. She was on a train and she was the day the Germans came in and she was arrested and then of course with her Jewish paper you know, you have to have ID and she was taken. We nev- we haven't heard, didn't hear from her for weeks but finally we got a postcard which we were all required to send even I was to relatives in Hungary or whatever that we're fine. And she so she wrote we're up in beautiful mountains and and we're working. But you know everything is just I just want you to know we're we're spot. But it was not, it was some kind of a sea, as I recall that the postmark, it wasn't Auschwitz. Some kind of a German town. So we we thought she was you know, she was fine and we're just going to out wait the war and it's going to end and rumors that will be a relocated in Africa or you know just any place where we are safe and were you know not hated and we'll be all together. And I was I was so naive and I don't know whether it was you know my little town upbringing or or just. Why that even when when finally we were finally, when we were in Ger- in in Auschwitz that I heard the cries at night. I heard people yelling helfen, help help help and and people were saying around us that they're killing the gypsies. And course later we learned that sure enough that's what it was. And the gypsies, who for years, they were, they lived as a family and they worked in the gas chambers and you know, they and they knew everything they knew what's going to happen and Monday were herded up. It was soon after we arrived in Auschwitz and I remember it was a clear night except for the smoke and for this horrible smell which I was in probably what they would call now denial. That I did not really want to believe. I wanted to believe that my father is fine and and everybody else is and here, you know here we were and and still I could not believe it.

Can you describe your arrival at Auschwitz?

Yes, it was as I recall it was daytime and we were so glad to get air when they opened the doors of the wagon and and of course we see these striped uniforms, young men. Yelling yelling in Engl- yelling in German raus raus, you know get out fast fast los los you know, fast. And and we would ask them in Hungarian who are you because you know, obviously they weren't German. And and they were the kapos, like they are. And they were Polish or they were Czechoslovakian some, you know, talked Hungarian most of them didn't but they were extremely cruel. They were hitting people and we of course, we wanted to get our suitcases and they said you'll get your suitcase later and and we had to line up and I was next to my my my dad and next to me was this Hungarian girl from my hometown. Her name is would be... I'm trying to think what it would be in English. It isn't important. But if I do refer to her maybe it would be Ilona in English and and then you know her parents and then there was who I didn't know Mengele but he he was beautifully groomed and the the picture of the opposite of of what what we were like, you know. He he was and he had dogs and he had his whip and he was tall and he was handsome and he he had on I think white sort of a breeches type of pants. And and extremely well-groomed. And he would just show his his, with his whip show show the way for us to go. And so he pointed we were actually facing just like I am facing you now and he pointed for me to go to the right and for this young girl from our group of people and my father and and this couple from my little town to go to the left and I hugged and kissed my dad and and and and we cried and I and when he left you know, and then in these kapos came and get on, you know get this way or you want to go with him go and but I I guess I believed that wherever you know the fate will put you you should go and so I didn't go with him. So I went with my friend and we promised each other that we'll stay together from from then on which we broke later, but I'll work up to that. And I know I kept looking at my dad and I kept looking at all the old people with the children the mothers with their holding their babies and the little kids hanging on to them and it was it was a would have been a complete chaos, but nobody dared to to yell.

We mostly cries just just everybody sobbing and the kapo saying that you will see him on the weekend or you'll you'll, you know, they are going to the family camp and you're going to work because you're young and but you will see them. And you know, I still wanted to believe and then we were taken of course to the left our our suitcases up in the wagon and handbags or whatever we had. We had to drop everything and and they washed us. I don't remember now how long of a walk it was but it was a long walk and I remember seeing arbeit macht- anyway work makes you free or that that famous saying and of course that just played in my naivety that the yes, we'll go to work and you know we'll be productive citizens again and everything will be fine. Then of course we went to a this huge huge room where we had to drop our clothes and we were, got were shaved and they were all everything was done by the inmates. We called it the half things the the female prisoners who were there for years by then and were very bitter toward the Hungarian Jews because you know, they would say to us we've been here for five, six years while you were going to movies and concerts and you had the Life of Riley and blamed it all you know on us. And they weren't very kind toward us. And when we and then we went to the showers, which of course at the time I didn't know that it we could of had gas come out of the the pipes or we could had water. We had water. And we were disinfected and and herded into these barracks.

Up till this time, had you heard about gas being used?

No and see by the by the time they got to us and the war coming the end of the war coming closer and closer. I think everything was done more rushed than before. For instance, I was not tattooed. There was just no time for it. And I I don't recall that they took us, took our names but as you know history proved that somewhere along the line they did because they do have record of of us or names. And we were given a grey striped dress that just hung on me and I believe wooden shoes. Yes. And no underwear or anything and when we looked at each other, you know bald we hardly recognized each other and you know, but by that time it just seemed like you you had no privacy. I mean you weren't even like a human being, you know, seeing all these naked people and I can't describe that the feeling you have it's you are ripped beyond any humanity there is just like animals or worse. And the barrack that we were in it was sort of a makeshift. For instance, the earlier barracks had been, had bunks, you know, maybe 20 people to a bunk, but still they were elevated and and had resembles of of something. We slept on the floor. The thousand Hungarian Jewish women who were put in this barrack that was just put up just on the bare ground and and the and no room to even to lie down, and and we were given this a dish that we elevated our heads, try to sleep, or on top of each other. And I remember moans around me for instance somebody who had a diabetic reaction which you know, I didn't know what it was, died right there and they were pulling out bodies left or right and and the you would call the streets I guess. It's the way that you know, the barracks were built or several section of barracks and there was a kind of like a road and you see people, these kapos, the uniformed inmates pulling the wagons with bodies hanging. Oh, you see an arm see a leg, a head hanging off of these these makeshift wagons and taking them but somehow you became immune and I still believe that my father's okay.

This is what will forever puzzle me. And we were there probably probably a week. Every day we it was the same routine. They got us up at, well, it was still dark probably four o'clock. The mornings were cold. The days were hot. It rained a lot and we had to stand to be counted that they called it cell appeal, you know five in a row this way and and heaven help that if somebody would faint or I mean we held each other up. We did everything in our power to you know to stand up. And there were the German officers who really didn't come all that close to us because you know, they didn't want to dirty them their hands with the dirty Jews so they had all all the dirty work was done by by other Jews and. But the German they had a lot of German female soldiers they did the counting. I don't think they trusted another inmate and, but they would with their dog on their side and their whip and they would count and and sometimes punishment whatever the we didn't know the reason sometimes we would stand for hours. Sometimes it would be shorter rain or shine, it didn't matter and we would get that dish that was given us at the beginning we would get some kind of a brown liquid that supposed to have been some kind of a like coffee. But it was like muddy water, but it tasted by that time it even that tasted good. We would get a soup, uh, that was I know that I recognized uh leaves of trees that were cooked and that was the green and then we would get some bread at night. And there were rumors that that came from the red cross that wasn't the German generosity that gave us the sometimes a piece of margarine and and sometimes a piece of baloney. And this bread that that we treasured and we didn't want to eat it all at once. So so we would ration ourselves for four or five different meals it would it would cover and a lot of people would fantasize about food and recipes and that's something I I didn't go for.

I think I lived in my own little world believing that almost almost like um my time safe um Anne Frank, that I still believed that people are good and that we were going to be all right. And about I suppose it was about a week passed and because every time every day new new arrivals new new transports and we we would rush if there was a fence between us if they happened to be in a different what they call lager. You know everybody would go to fence and yell, you know, where are you from and they were all Hungarians. And um pretty soon, I found out that there was a transport that just came from Debrecen and which is where my oldest sister lived, who just had the baby. And we found each other and of course go she was in a different barrack going from one barrack to another or move so to speak was absolutely forbidden, you know. But I when I saw her and I realized she just had a baby. She was like a zombie. And I wanted to be with her of course. So because she was from a town where there good lot of Jewish population and she knew a lot of a lot of people in in her, you know surrounding her, she wanted to stay with those girls. And and actually, I had some classmates that were with her and I begged my my friend from my town please come with me. And she said, you know what? We promised that that we would not separate and please don't leave me. I said I can't do it. It's my sister and I and all of a sudden here I'm 12 years younger and I became the mother, she became the child and I wanted to look after her and that's all I wanted to do. And so I broke my promise and left my friend because she would not come with me. By that time she made a few friends. She says, I won't mess with with fate I will stay and so I I moved and the barrack that she was in nobody ever heard one survivor. When I went back home and home. Qualified, and the the brother to my friend said I Kitty I have been searching for years see what happened, my only sibling, you know. He went back to Auschwitz. He traveled all over and never found anybody that knew anything about her. And so, you know it's it's it's a my feeling is that they must have been gassed because somebody usually out of a thousand a few a handful usually survived. But not out of that group and maybe it was just a whim of some some German officers that said you know, let's gas these people because there's no trace of them at all. And I so uh with my, everybody, you know the rumors were rumors were always if there's a transport try to go on the transport because that meant life. Get out of it, whatever at any price